Who's talking in GF: City Age

Lore
#1

“And so it is agreed. The Concordat shall no longer be recognized among the Consensus. We’ll begin the dismantling right away. But what of those Guardians who have pledged to them? We can’t afford any more banishments.”

“I’m sure Zavala can see to their realignment.”

“We’ll do our best. Lysander chose his followers wisely. It may take some time.”

“Lysander will not back down. He’ll continue his crusade from wherever we stuff him.”

“And so we’ll need to find some new ideas to replace his.”

“The Symmetry has been gaining a strong following…”

“Ulan-Tan’s teachings are too dangerous. Too much fear. Who knew he’d be more trouble dead than alive?”

“We’ll need to refocus our collective minds on combat. The Speaker’s anxious to regain ground we lost after the Gap.”

“There is the War Cult.”

“Too secretive. Have you ever tried to talk to one of their ‘soldiers’? Like a child. Answering questions with questions.”

“They are dedicated to the war.”

“Which one?”

“Good question.”

“Zavala?”

“They seem focused. Strong. More interesting than worrisome.”

“Let’s take it to a vote. All in favor of the ascension of the Future War Cult?”

“Unanimous? Good. We’ll grant the Future War Cult access to the Tower and a seat among us. Ghost, please offer the Speaker this proposal.”

“Now onto the next order of business…Shaxx is here with another proposal for his Crucible.”

We were just recording an episode when this topic came up from @PurpleChimera and we talked about it before recording.

what we can say for sure is that the first line and the second line are NOT Zavala based on the context of the card, but that the third line IS Zavala based on context.

my interpretation is that from the point that Zav is introduced he is every talking every other line. Purple offered a counter to this that the lines

“They are dedicated to the war.” (Zavala)

“Which one?” (Not Zav)

“Good question.” (Zav)

“Zavala?” (not Zav)

“They seem focused. Strong. More interesting than worrisome.” (Zav)

specifically the the bolded line suggest Zav was quiet and not talking for some time. i do see how that could be seen, but i personally think that this was was him saying “they’re dedicated to the war. (which one) good question” and at that point he looks off in consideration as to which war they aim to fight, the other person speaking then pulls him back with “Zavala?” not calling Zavala back to a conversation he’s been quiet in.

what’s everyone’s thoughts on this? we know for certain that the Speaker is not on the Consensus, and also that Zavala is not leading it, but is in it. so based on the info that we know this leaves the Dead Orbit rep, the New Monarchy Rep (Concordat and FWC wouldn’t be here) the Vanguard, and that SHOULD be it, but maybe there’s actually more?

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#2

I feel like there has to be a couple more. Seems so un-towerlike to not have the citizenry fairly represented. Maybe someone from the cryptarch corps for example.

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#3

well that’s the purpose of the Factions, they represent the City, but Cryptarchs would be sensible since they are in essence a Faction

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#4

I completely understand that, but I can imagine that there would hypothetically be citizens who might not draw an allegiance to one particular faction.

It would just be hard for me to believe that there are basically just the factions represented. I could imagine there would be even observers on the consensus without a vote perhaps.

Just my ramblings, nothing to back it up besides my intuition.

#5

honestly i dont think there’d be more. Factions pulled Guadians in to gain power, to gain that iron fist to back up anything they say. when it became clear that this was a poor method of control the Consensus, Vanguard, and Tower appear to have rose. (there’s no mention of one together with the other, so i can only assume) andi mean, they arent stupid.

Guardians are the key to survival, so blocking out the citizens but still offering safety makes sense.

it essentially went from ALL Factions having power, all Factions fighting each other, and also Warlord fiefdoms. to the Consensus overruling the Factions, and the Vanguard being put in place to organize the Guardians, and the Speaker as a religious leader/title holder.

there’s never been a point in the lore where the City was a democracy, and i dont think it ever could have been. not when a portion of the population is equivalently a super hero, and maybe that’s what Concordat strove to do.

in a card it says he struck at the Vanguard, not the Consensus, so the Guardians, not the people.

#6

That makes a lot of sense. It reminds me that the city is no utopia, not yet at least. I suppose an easy term if we want to give it one is martial law more or less.

#7

I interpret this a different way. I think the “Zavala?” line is because Zavala hadn’t spoken/given any input in a while. I think it likely that as this is a meeting of the Consensus (the first line implying they had just voted to remove the Concordat from their ranks) the following people are likely present: Zavala, Ikora, Cayde, Jaalal and and Hideo. It’s clear that the Speaker is not present (regardless of which camp you’re in with regard to him and the Consensus) because at the end Zavala says to send the proposal to him. No need to do that if he’s standing in the room.

I suppose there is an argument to be made that we don’t know when Cayde replaced Andal Brask, so theoretically it could be Andal as Hunter Vanguard rather than Cayde (which may be a reason we can’t immediately pick out Cayde’s snark. Or he could have just had a serious day for some reason).

As Zavala is Vanguard Commander and there are implications that the Faction reps report to him for Consensus duties at least, it seems odd that he would not speak the first line (even though it’s clear he didn’t because of the second line). I suppose it’s possible it could be Hideo speaking, given that New Monarchy dealt the final blow to the Concordat they could be the ones bringing the removal proposal to the Consensus. It could also be a secretary/court reporter (likely a bot?) who is simply reporting and recording what has happened within the Consensus meetings for official minutes. Though the line about not being able to afford banishments seems out of place for such a character if there is one.

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#8

You’ve raised a lot of great points here. I’d have to agree on two things, and i want to offer something as well.

The reason we’re devoid of Cayde-esq snark is because Andal is still alive, and the introductory speaker is Hideo (New Monarchy Consensus rep assuming it’s not Hideo)

But! We don’t actually know the timeline of Concordat’s banishment, what if the Bannerfall battle happened first?

So Zavala says we’ll do our best…

Hideo replies Lysander will not back down (because they already fought)

And this is why Lysander isn’t in the meeting, he’s already revolted and this is just all the official political bullshit post battle.

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#9

Side question: Are we to assume the last line, “Now onto the next order of business…Shaxx is here with another proposal for his Crucible.”, is Shaxx setting up Bannerfall for crucible in commemoration?

#10

I’d personally say no. It’d be too soon imo. More likely this is modifications for the Crucible to make it what it is today. Like, setting up established rules. Maybe even mercy rule :stuck_out_tongue:

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#11

I guess that makes sense, considering Shaxx only took over the crucible shortly before concordat was dismantled.

#12

I agree with you @AnonPig that this conversation happened after the battle at Bannerfall.

@SentinelDad as far as the Shaxx/Crucible line…considering they say “another proposal” that sounds more like rules rather than requesting permission to obtain an area for a map. Could be requesting more/different regulations, or something like that.

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#13

Damn you all for creating this site.

Ok, I’m with @PurpleChimera, I think the “Zavala?” Is someone calling him into the conversation. Personally I get an Ikora feel as the main person in this card, probably talking to Hideo in my opinion.

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#14

I’m with you on this one dragon, the card feels like a group of people conversing. In my head I’ve always read it as Speaker and the Vanguard Reps, but I have no real reason to think that.

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#15

Alright so i can definitely see that, but we can confidently say this is a meeting of the Consensus, which based on info we can assume is the Factions and Vanguard. So let’s first assume for the sake of i just like this theory, Andal is still alive and is the Hunter mentor. That leaves Ikora Zavala Hideo and Jalaal.

“And so it is agreed. The Concordat shall no longer be recognized among the Consensus. We’ll begin the dismantling right away. But what of those Guardians who have pledged to them? We can’t afford any more banishments.” (Hideo)

“I’m sure Zavala can see to their realignment.” (Ikora/Jalaal)

“We’ll do our best. Lysander chose his followers wisely. It may take some time.” (Zavala)

“Lysander will not back down. He’ll continue his crusade from wherever we stuff him.” (Hideo)

“And so we’ll need to find some new ideas to replace his.” (Ikora)

“The Symmetry has been gaining a strong following…” (Jalaal/Andal)

“Ulan-Tan’s teachings are too dangerous. Too much fear. Who knew he’d be more trouble dead than alive?” (Ikora)

“We’ll need to refocus our collective minds on combat. The Speaker’s anxious to regain ground we lost after the Gap.” (Zavala)

“There is the War Cult.” (Andal)

“Too secretive. Have you ever tried to talk to one of their ‘soldiers’? Like a child. Answering questions with questions.” (Ikora)

“They are dedicated to the war.” (Andal)

“Which one?” (Ikora)

“Good question.” (Andal)

“Zavala?” (Ikora)

“They seem focused. Strong. More interesting than worrisome.” (Zavala)

“Let’s take it to a vote. All in favor of the ascension of the Future War Cult?” (Hideo)

“Unanimous? Good. We’ll grant the Future War Cult access to the Tower and a seat among us. Ghost, please offer the Speaker this proposal.” (Zavala)

“Now onto the next order of business…Shaxx is here with another proposal for his Crucible.” (Hideo)

I place Hideo as the lead because New Monarchy is closest tied to the Consensus and has the ambition to abolish it. They also formed during the end of the Faction Wars so they’d be an impartial judge.

We don’t know the feelings towards Symmetry by the other Factions so Jalaal may like them.

Ikora is one to challenge the secrets/dangerous types.

The New Monarchy however wouldn’t kindly suggest Future War Cult, nor would Jalaal, so Andal.

The Andal/Ikora section could only be a back and forth in my opinion.

Zavala is the second in command to the Speaker, and based on what we know Faction reps aren’t Guardians, but a Ghost is sent to the Speaker.

Could everyone agree to this being the most likely?

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#16

Reading this breakdown, it looks on point.

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#17

I like it @AnonPig ! I definitely think the Speaker isn’t present because of the “offer the Speaker this proposal” line. Unless we get an audio transcript we’ll never know for certain but I think this is a reasonable guess!

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#18

I think that’s a great summary @AnonPig. A couple I feel could be slightly off, but mostly how I saw it. 0

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#19

I would exclude Jalaal entirely because it doesn’t seem like him to participate in a discussion that doesn’t appear to be his concern.

#20

Historically, the Concordat was an agreement between Napoleon III and the Pope at the time to reinstate the Catholic Church in France. However, Napoleon did not make Catholicism the national religion of France, and did not allow its authority to supersede that of the state.

Given Bungie’s penchant for using historical analogies to provide context as to the significance of things and people in their lore (Forerunner translation software comes to mind, as well as the names given to Guardians - “Toland” - and the Warminds) I think this could definitely have some value as to what the Concordat stood for.

Many see the Traveler, the Speaker, and those Guardians who view it with a pseudo-gnostic perspective (though one could argue that civilians are more likely than Guardians to do so, after the kind of things they see out in the wilds) as a radical or at least religious sect. The Concordat likely placed no value in the Speaker or Traveler, like New Monarchy, and sought to seize control of the City to reform what they perceived as a theocracy into a democracy, as AnonPig says.

Seeing as this goal runs parallel but opposing to New Monarchy’s endgame, it makes sense that New Monarchy would push for and participate in their removal and elimination.

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