Why Rasputin NEVER shot the Traveler; and the downfall of similar misconceptions (x-post from DestinyTheGame & DestinyLore)

GhostDante I salute you for the effort and time you took to lay out your thesis; but for me the theory of Raspy gut-shotting the Traveler who from much of the available Lore appears to be somewhat cowardly in its actions still seems to be the gist of the story to this point.

The Traveler seems to be some kind of Evolution Catalyst in that it would seem that it would “randomly” appear to different civilizations and sort of jump-start or boost their advancement. It also seems that the ever-encroaching Darkness provokes a Flee response and to me the “whirlwind” that the Eliksni speak about could be imagined as the “thrusters” of the Traveler going full sub-light prior to escaping.

To me the Travelers arrival to our Solar System seems to be in line with its Modus Operandi and I do think that Raspy being full on Mission Imperative: Protect the Meatbags analyzed a few things:

  1. The Invading Hostiles would invariably annihilate Humanity and so Raspy engaged his If-Then parameters and went into extended Sleep-Mode to wait out the Winter
  2. And perhaps his sensors detected the Traveler warming up its sub-lights and Raspy was essentially like, “Uh, no bump you, finish what you started.”

Again I have not spent nearly as much time as many of you with the grimoire but the various podcasts from Ishtar-Collective and Focus Fire Chat really compel me to think that this theory is plausible.

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While the Traveler indeed flees in the face of the Darkness, we have no evidence to suggest the Traveler has “thrusters” as you say. Given that it has not crashed on Earth and rather “hovers” above it, I am inclined to say that its flight capabilities work very similar to that of Halo Cryptums, which do not utilize thrusters to launch them into orbit or way from it. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ec5rWLkCAVg - If you fast forward to about 7 minutes, you will see the type of flight I am referring to.

As for the Eliksni Whirlwind, there is nothing to imply it was explicitly literal, as many things in the Destiny universe are metaphors, with the Whirlwind probably referring to the Eliksni version of the “Collapse” or Calamity, as its second definition reads thus: used in similes and metaphors to describe a very energetic or tumultuous person or process. The accompanying definitions are: maelstrom, welter, bedlam, mayhem, babel, swirl, tumult, hurly-burly, commotion, confusion We also have the Doom of Chelchis which indicates that Oryx was present during the Eliksni Whirlwind, or Collapse, having killed Chelchis himself - precipitating their ultimate fall.

As for it having an Operandi, such a term is grievously incorrect in terms of fact when the only actual recorded instance of it fleeing while the Darkness destroys a civilization is the Eliksni.The Traveler was present for the Ammonite, providing the with paracausal weapons. It never stayed with the Harmony, only “passed” over their worlds and realigning their system. The Darkness followed suite soon after it had already left. Then we have humanity, and in the Grimoire Card Mysteries it says the following: I AM ALONE I survived alone. I cast off the shield and I shrugged my shoulders so that the billions fell off me down into the ash. They made me to be stronger than them and to learn and I learned well: IT is alone and IT is strong and IT won. Even over the gardener and she held power beyond me but the gardener did not shrug and make herself alone. IT always wins. If Rasputin forced it to stay, it makes no sense to say then that it did not do something.

In short; the only thing that makes the Rasputin shot the Traveler theory alive is speculation, and the dismissal of certain key details which prove otherwise. Not talking about you per se, just the concepts asserted by the theory itself.

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Fair enough. Obviously much of the grimoire is told from certain perspectives that border propaganda and therefore a one-sided bias.

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Not necessarily. The Grimoire card I referenced was authored by Rasputin himself. If he has something against the Traveler, he is not going to give it the credit for something he did and would have said something else. We then have the Traveler itself saying it decided to stay. In the end, lore is cross-referenced to validate it or not. Every card relating to the incident indicates the Traveler stayed of its own will. Nothing but opinion says otherwise. If you dismiss lore due to additional opinion, then there is no point in Destiny as nothing in it is concrete or true. The BoS are propaganda, but the very definition of the word is to spread rumors or tales crafted to shape an idea by those authoring it. The Cards are written by multiple characters within the world. And not all of them have an agenda like Oryx. So claiming all of the cards are propaganda, is another incorrect assertion.

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Savathun flat out calls 'em propaganda. I take a middle view – that they are part history and part propaganda. Propaganda isn’t so bad all the time.

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Savathun said the BoS were propaganda. Not the Grimoire collective. You must remember the compilation is Grimoire. Each card is either a record, journal entry, Ghost recording etc. Very few are written by someone I.e Thorn. So while many do contain personal views, the overwhelming majority are neutral and factual. But as you’ve noted, propaganda is not always bad.

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Right, my mistake. :upside_down:

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No worries. That comment could easily be confused to mean the BoS. I was referring to the Grimoire cards as a whole. Perhaps I should have specified. :slight_smile:

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It stands to reason that the majority of the grimoire shouldn’t be assumed to be propaganda due to the example of the BoS. The objective cards and those written by characters who we know to be reliable narrators especially.

There are, however, unreliable narrators and beings whose trustworthiness is in question - or those who clearly have a bias on certain subjects - other than Oryx.

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That was my initial point: the Grimoire is not all authored by someone. The cards are simply a compilation of records - Rasputin’s Collapse protocols, journal entries of sorts (characters musing to themselves), events told from the 3rd person, and transcripted Ghost recordings. Now stuff like Thorn and Last Word were written by Shin so they may have a bias. GF: Shadows of Yor may also contain bias. Otherwise, the Grimoire must be taken as lore and correct. Otherwise, might as well dismiss destiny itself as propaganda because every story is told by someone. It yet remains to be seen how far off from the truth it actually was.

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If we are treating the numbers as versions of rasputin, a decrease in number means a rollback to a previous version.

So he goes on, improving himself (probably for either self preservation, or preservation of humanity by not allowing the complete destruction of the warminds) and goes increasing his version numbers until the point he sees that he cannot win.

At this point he finds the point that he seems the best to return to, the one that he can better improve himself with the new parameters (V55) and roll himself back to that point, hoping that the outcome will be different in 101 itreations with the new inputs that the unverse will feed him.

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Huh. That’s interesting. He forced himself to adapt to stave off destruction until he could no longer do so.