So the hive is often associated with the darkness but that’s just because they have a worm. Every hive is born without the darkness inside of then until they choose to eat a worm. But what if some hive got away from their dark brothers and chose to worship the Light and to not eat a worm. Tell me what your thoughts are on this and feel free to add bits and pieces I missed
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There is no way there could be ‘light’ hive. Hive are what happened when the proto-hive fused with the worms. There could have been a chance when the traveler came to oryx’s (aurysh at that time) homeworld and gave help to another species on the fundament. The only reason we have the light powers is because of ghosts, which were made during the traveler’s crippling.
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I agree @TheTurtleMan. The term “Hive” is the name given to the proto-Hive species after they accepted the worm. At this point in their evolution, there is no evidence to suggest that a member of the Hive species is able to exist without their worm.
8 Likes
Well they are just normal proto hive before they eat a worn and officially become a hive
Could you provide evidence to substantiate that claim?
On that topic, what happens when new hive are born? I am not sure exactly what happens to make the hive babies, but are they born with worms or without?
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I’m not sure which grimour cards state it, I’m pretty sure toland said he saw hive devouring worms, also why else would there be wormkeepers.
In the books of sorrow when Oryx brought back the worms to his proto hive people and they turned into the hive we know today.
Hive are born without worms, worms are bred by wormkeepers and then eaten by hive.
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If you go to the dreadnought you can scan a worm it says that it’s a worm larve so if they are born with the worm why would there be worm larve on the loose?
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if there was hypothetically a light hive i don’t think it would really work, hive in general are bred from dead beings, the wizards or at least are assisted by their paracausal worms to permit breeding but i don’t think it would work.
Eris talks about the Heart of Crota and describes a scene where Hive are being spawned by or in concert with the torture and light-stripping of Omar. If her description is accurate, it appears that the birth of Hive is intimately connected with the Deep at this point.
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It’s a larval worm, not a Hive larva.
The Hive were born of a parasitical pact between their God Kings and the Worm gods. The species was known as the proto-Hive before the worm pact. Wizards are the only breeding females, and can self-fertilize if they wish.
The idea of a “Light” Hive is intriguing, but impossible as the Hive are a race molded by the Darkness, but a proto-Hive could accept the Light.
Exactly.
No, the hive could not.
BUT, the proto-hive (krill) is a completely different matter all together, as they are not hive so therefor could used the light if they were chosen by a ghost and became a guardian (speculation).
I FREAKING TOLD YOU ALL! 3 years ago, no one believed me!
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“Could there be a Hive of Light?”
What exactly are we discussing here?
Are we suggesting the existence of a Hive that behaves, thinks, and believes like humans?
If such a Hive exists, they would be analogous to demon worshippers and savage barbarians, assuming we are equivalent to the Hive.
The Hive, for a considerable duration, has been utilizing what we refer to as the ‘Light,’ but in their (or rather our) context, it’s known as the ‘Dark.’
Assuming ‘Light’ ≠ ‘Dark’… Like what does this even mean? ^
^
The Taken
Van Dijk: "This is an example of an idea where design definitely permuted over time. There was this notion that we wanted to introduce a new race, essentially composed of existing facets that mutated in some way. There was only a handful of sketches that implied what it might look like. It was sort of like this inverted solarized effect.
We didn’t want to end up in a situation where players would just always think of their enemies as fodder. At the end of a year of acquiring super high-tier raid weapons, they were just eating their way through waves of enemies without concern for their own well being. It became clear that the Taken were going to be a nastier, meaner version of existing factions. We felt the visuals needed to reinforce that. We wanted to introduce somewhat of a visual paradox, where these guys are closer to the darkness than the existing combatants, but in some weird way also much brighter.
That contrast ultimately led us to the Taken. They seem somewhat illuminated, their faces typically tend to have a glowing bright spot inside of it. They’re very much based on that paradox: How do we play up the significance of the battle of light and dark within this particular combatant race?"
Anyway…
The Light (or ‘Dark’), when interpreted as a technology rather than a magic, originates from the same source (The Traveler), appears or functions similar (as something that can usher change dramatically through the manipulation of molecules, transform “material bodies” into light (basically what happens to your sparrow when it’s no longer needed), and can be illustrated as “sigils” or “runes” like “Magicks” from humanity’s past), but assumes a different color, shape and method from the Hive’s perspective, based on their pre-existing scientific/philosophical understanding of the natural world and cultural depictions of the spiritual, as opposed to the human’s.
^Wait! Did I see a pentagram?
Glimmer could be can be an example of this futuristic alchemy or “body of light” / instance of this ‘Light’ technology:
When interpreted as a symbol rather than technology, we prize the ‘Light’ because it imparts intellect, morality, vitality, tranquility, courage, clarity/truth, and wisdom; it instills in us a sense of safety, civility, and “enlightenment” within a civilization, something that makes us more human or greater in the modern world.
The ‘Dark’ frightens us because it can render us weary, evil, beast-like, mad, and ignorant; it leaves us feeling vulnerable and “uncivilized” in a world devoid of order and consciousness, surrounded in mystery or misery.
We flourish in the light but are susceptible in the darkness.
Conversely, paralleling insects, the Hive thrive in the dark but are vulnerable in the light.
The Hive perceives humans using the Traveler’s cryptic technology on Earth as not merely a people, but a symbolic representation of evil, barbarism, and a threat to their entire civilization or soul.
Their intense hatred and fanaticism for humans and their idea of light make them perfect instruments for the Traveler that endowed them with their ‘Dark.’
They resemble nocturnal crusaders on a holy mission.
They view humans as a dangerous, wicked, and uncivilized race or creed — witches or demons.
This is ironic because they perfectly fit our ancient legends of demonic creatures, in several ways:
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They are monstrous, and also something undead.
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They disintegrate into dust upon death like vampires in popular culture.
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They possess a lunar stronghold referred to as “The Hellmouth”: Hellmouth - Wikipedia or Hellmouth | Buffyverse Wiki | Fandom.
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Their “Tomb Ships” are inspired by similar ships from this movie: https://youtu.be/FkvTfPmRIc4
Many partial-truths have been spoken around or about “Light” and “Dark”; That I am not even sure the Light is good or even light, let alone “magic” that came from space.
Of course, it’s just too “Esoteric”, The Light / The Speaker / The Traveler is just misunderstood, and we misunderstood IT.
“The Black Garden” was originally inside of “The Traveler”:
^The line “So… think you can kill a God?” would make more sense in this context. Not only would it clarify why the ghost would refer to it as a “god” beyond simply observing the Vex praising it, but it would also aptly describe what they went through in uncovering a plot twist and “exposing” The Traveler and its Darkness to The Last City in the original script.
The Heart was “The Darkness” and also part of “The Light.”
They tried to re-edit it to make it more clear that it is “Dark” and not obviously “Light”:
However, this detail remained:
https://youtu.be/8oH4_uIJJhY?t=593
https://youtu.be/w34-uoTHXh0?t=620
https://www.ishtar-collective.net/cards/legend-the-black-garden
https://www.ishtar-collective.net/items/helm-of-inmost-light-2
Vitalis and The Touch of Malice comparison (notice The Touch of Malice encasing The Heart where the Traveler is supposed to be for the Vitalis. Plus, the light ‘matrixes’ surrounding The Heart.)
https://youtu.be/wrg1rf91d2c
https://cdnb.artstation.com/p/assets/images/images/000/277/421/large/1920_jessevandijk_vitalis.jpg
https://cdna.artstation.com/p/assets/images/images/001/256/624/large/jesse-van-dijk-jvd-touchofmalice-1920.jpg
https://youtu.be/EwOUi4JDC4o
https://www.ishtar-collective.net/items/flight-of-shadows
https://www.ishtar-collective.net/items/year-1993
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pathways_into_Darkness
https://marathon.bungie.org/story/pathways.html
https://www.reddit.com/r/DestinyTheGame/comments/3610pj/destinys_story_is_an_inverted_retelling_of_the/
https://www.bungie.net/en/Forums/Post/60063946
https://gamerant.com/wp-content/uploads/Destiny-Early-Story-Details.jpg
https://www.ishtar-collective.net/cards/ghost-fragment-the-traveler
https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/boards/704532-destiny/75293460
https://4.bp.blogspot.com/-SqzlXjHiRlQ/VgP8NQVQIKI/AAAAAAAABTg/aY9id5odrzQ/s1600/db_destiny_223.jpg
I might be overanalyzing, but the original story could have been an “anti-occultism” narrative, EXCEPT… with better arguments and without the superstitious/fear mongering grift.
The Vex could be interpreted as an allusion to the original definition of “paganism” because they bear names/terms (much like the Oriental and Judeo-Christian names/terms used for “The Covenant” faction in Halo) from ancient Greek and Egypt (Osiris) mythology, something from long dead cultures from the Mediterranean, that was historically considered “pagan” by the Christian Europeans.
“The Templar” hydra is a forgotten nod to this ignored detail. (Knights Templar)
https://www.ishtar-collective.net/cards/the-templar
Basically Joseph Staten took an underrated yet certain theme that was common in morality tales (the deterrence against irrationalism), and presented it in a new light as a “Mythic Sci-Fi” story, and also in the style of his writing used for Halo.
While analogy and symbolic or allegorical thinking are powerful tools for comprehending complex concepts, they can also be dangerously fallible or exploitable in several ways…
https://www.ishtar-collective.net/cards/awoken
https://youtu.be/Y5NbEjkkPlI?t=339
Misinterpretation: Symbolic language can be misconstrued or perceived in many different ways, leading to confusion, miscommunication, or even conflict, especially when the symbols or allegories are culturally sensitive or deeply personal.
Manipulation: Analogies can be employed to sway people’s perceptions and emotions. By drawing parallels between one situation and another, it’s possible to make something appear more or less serious than it truly is. This tactic can be exploited in politics, advertising, and other arenas where persuasion is paramount.
Oversimplification: Analogies and symbols often distill complex situations or concepts, leading to a lack of understanding or appreciation for the intricacy and subtlety of the original concept. It can also result in flawed decision-making based on incomplete or misleading information.
Stereotyping: Analogical and symbolic thinking can perpetuate stereotypes and biases. By using analogies, we often resort to familiar stereotypes to make our point, thereby reinforcing harmful biases and prejudices.
False Equivalence: Analogies can create a sense of equivalence between two things that are not truly equivalent, leading to incorrect reasoning and misleading conclusions.
Deception: In the hands of a skilled rhetorician, analogies and symbols can be used to deceive or mislead. By choosing carefully crafted analogies or symbols, it’s possible to subtly influence people’s thinking without them even realizing it.
https://www.ishtar-collective.net/cards/the-darkness
https://www.ishtar-collective.net/cards/legend-the-black-garden
https://youtu.be/Ny7XhR4URZE?t=99
https://youtu.be/HHFWNwoNRF8
https://www.ishtar-collective.net/cards/no-land-beyond
https://www.ishtar-collective.net/cards/the-jade-rabbit
https://www.ishtar-collective.net/cards/fabian-strategy
https://youtu.be/3EoaeJvY2yg?t=51
It wouldn’t be a stretch to consider the unspeakable:
https://www.reddit.com/r/xboxone/comments/3pi0gx/comment/cw6qvtc/
The original story’s concept of the Reef social space as a refuge from exile from the city would indeed be symbolic. “The Awoken”, as a race, are known for transcending such binary thinking as indicated in the grimoire line: “The others sing this song of Light and Dark. We, together, have transcended such unimaginative limitations.”
https://www.ishtar-collective.net/cards/awoken
This subtle hint from the original story, embedded in the vanilla grimoire, is a pointed commentary on the game’s original storyline being a tale of disillusionment with binary thinking, or the drawbacks of a civilization governed more by subservience and comfort in symbols than by curiosity.
https://www.ishtar-collective.net/items/grayscale-lens
https://www.ishtar-collective.net/items/topsy-turvy-lens
https://www.ishtar-collective.net/items/azure-lens
Also, considering the lines from the first Awoken queen cutscene, "You want to turn it into a battleground. How unimaginative." and “Everyone knows where it is. The hard part is getting in”…
https://youtu.be/2P66cKal9vg?t=157
…Suddenly makes coherent sense when one considers the plausible hypothesis that “The Darkness at its heart”, The Black Garden, was likely inside The Traveler at The Last City all along.
Everyone, particularly the Awoken, knows that the Black Garden is safely ensconced within an inter-dimensional being, guarded by the city’s authority. Therefore, accessing it would be an entirely separate and challenging endeavor.
Yet, individuals like The Speaker and Luke Smith would likely " ‘deny’ " this:
https://youtu.be/7FmaU0D1TUg?t=346
Additionally one can only assume what this symbol ultimately symbolizes when one considers the “Binary Star Cult” from the unused story:
https://www.ishtar-collective.net/cards/the-darkness
https://assets1.ignimgs.com/2017/02/12/12-ftc100-exoconceptart-1486908228655.jpg
https://assets1.ignimgs.com/2017/02/12/13-ftc100-exoversionsart-1486908228656.jpg
https://cdn.pixabay.com/photo/2012/04/28/18/57/circle-44020_1280.png
https://memory-alpha.fandom.com/wiki/Buffer
Moreover, I find the use of crystals in PID and Destiny to be interesting:
http://pid.bungie.org/Crystals.html
https://destiny.wiki.gallery/images/thumb/e/e9/Destiny-TDB-CrotaSoulCrystal-02.jpg/1600px-Destiny-TDB-CrotaSoulCrystal-02.jpg
https://destiny.wiki.gallery/images/thumb/e/e3/Destiny-TDB-CrotaSoulCrystal-03.jpg/1600px-Destiny-TDB-CrotaSoulCrystal-03.jpg
There’s games like Diablo 4 and today’s Destiny where somewhat real Esoteric symbolism would have been an accident or byproduct of “aesthetic filler”, but in the original Destiny, there was actual forethought to this symbolism and why it was used specifically.
https://youtu.be/Xb1yE71bw3o?t=565
https://imgur.com/4o1to
https://imgur.com/kgMlG
https://web.archive.org/web/20160329104736/http://alphalupi.bungie.net/ArraySuccessResult.html
https://destinyemblemcollector.com/destiny1/emblem?id=1443409303
https://destinyemblemcollector.com/destiny1/emblem?id=1342743555
https://destinyemblemcollector.com/destiny1/emblem?id=2211817411
https://destinyemblemcollector.com/destiny1/emblem?id=1426631717
https://destinyemblemcollector.com/destiny1/emblem?id=1722936865
https://destinyemblemcollector.com/destiny1/emblem?id=1722936869
https://destinyemblemcollector.com/destiny1/emblem?id=1722936867
https://destinyemblemcollector.com/destiny1/emblem?id=3424247735
https://destinyemblemcollector.com/destiny1/emblem?id=1722936866
https://destinyemblemcollector.com/destiny1/emblem?id=1722936870
https://i.imgur.com/R31ztsV.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/96N5KCm.png
https://youtu.be/Yud0l4Zl59Y
https://youtu.be/5obowI47r-g
https://youtu.be/CkFjpnVLDBI
https://youtu.be/W6gCdUveCNg
https://youtu.be/zlj7OfJ9RFA
https://youtu.be/EM8P7kxAxrU
https://youtu.be/gSDJK0x_TaY
https://youtu.be/5puJWppEiLs
https://i1071.photobucket.com/albums/u520/CortanaV/Destiny/403d97ba.png
https://i1071.photobucket.com/albums/u520/CortanaV/Destiny/9c7e2b1a.png
https://i1071.photobucket.com/albums/u520/CortanaV/Destiny/b4c8e380.png
In summary, the unused story for Destiny 1, revolving around the theme of Light vs. Darkness, could have been a critique of the overused and clichéd tropes of “space magic” and “good guys vs. bad guys” seen many times over in media, especially in numerous games at the time (Infamous, Fable and Star Wars).
Starfield is a prime example of these aforementioned tropes being used aimlessly: https://youtu.be/uRzDxUinaEM?t=753
Finally, this ship was “made” during 2016: https://youtu.be/WBNdrJMwrkc?t=524