Destiny 2, and what might happen

Ok, so a lot of this I’m referencing from My Name Is Byf’s video on Destiny 2 (I highly recommend you check out his channel)

So from the “rally the troops” trailer, we can see that the Red Legion has attacked the tower, destroyed all of Cayade’s (and our) stuff. But if you play close attention to the trailer, we can see some sort of dome forming over the traveler.
If you pay attention also to the Cabal Phalanx sheld right after, it seems to have the same sort of pattern. So the question is, why are the cabal trying to seemingly trying to suppress the traveler, when their main enemy is the Guardians?
Well if you look at the Cabal lore, it references the ghosts, or dead persons as the gimore states.
The Cabal know that the Guardians are immortal, but they also know that the ghost are their source of said immortality.
And the Cabal know about Traveler, and that the ghosts draw their immorality giving powers from it.
So if the Cabal suppress the Traveler, they cut off our powers and immorality, right? Well not exactly.

So going to back to the trailer, we can clearly see Ikora Ray (warlock vanguard) using stormcaller on a Cabal unit. But this is impossible right? Since the Traveler’s light has been cut off.
Actually it isnt, but a bit of lore first.

(And I semi-quote Byf on this next bit, with a It of my own theory in there)

“Stormcallers are incredibly rare”, because you literally have to control the flow of Pure Ark Energy from an Ark Storm and while respecting its raw power. This feat would kill most guardians.

“Nightstalkers are almost unheard of” a mystery of the night, you could say. Hunters reach into darkness of the void, seeking its secrets and the unknown. And they never come out the same, because the void rests on the line between the Light and The Darkness. One wrong step, and you are gone. Forever.

“Sunbreakers are a mercenary group, unknown to city for centuries” the Sunbreakers are actually the most mysterious of the Three. Since they have a (possibly) large number of Titans already using the ability. But since they have no connections to the city at all, it is completely unknown.
When Titans go to summon the hammer of Sol, they draw power Directly from the Sun, yes the giant ball of plasma at the center of our solar system.

So what does all of this have to do with Ikora ray using stormcaller during the trailer?
Stormcaller, Nightstalker, and Sunbreaker do use Light, but not the Traveler’s light. That also explains why in game they were added later than the original 6 subclasses and why they require there own missions, because they are completely different than any other ability than we as Guardians are use too.

This may explain (in my opinion) what and why the Cabal are invading the tower in the first place

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I watched this video as well, and agree with most of the deduction here. There’s just one point of contention:

Sure, they don’t use the Traveler’s light, but they’re still using Light - just channeled from a different source. I believe Byf is correct when he says, in the video, that we will have to find such alternative sources of Light to use our powers.

Though they are advanced techniques with different power sources, the Taken King subclasses all use Light. One only has to look into the grimoire to confirm this.

Sunbreaker: “Some Titan orders predate the City, born of a darker time, when Light was an untamed weapon.”

Nightstalker: “There’s truth in the edge of Light, and beneath that truth a deeper truth, hidden from all but a few.”

Talk to Ikora: “A Stormcaller’s lightning awaits release. So release it on the Darkness. Show the universe how your Light can burn down armies.” —Ikora Rey

I think it’s pretty safe to assume that, since Arc, Solar and Void are fundamental energies of the universe, Light is what we are using to conjure them out of nowhere in their pure form; the method to our paracausality, if you will.

By that logic, Light isn’t the origin of those elements - but it’s what we use to tap into them. Our own light, amplified by the Traveler, is the key to our powers, and any ability involves the use of Light. It’s technique that makes the difference.

Guardian Abilities: “Only Guardians have the gift of the Traveler’s Light - the ability to channel its energies to project vast power into the world.”

“Channel” and “project” being the operative words. The power we project doesn’t necessarily come from the same source the Light we use as a catalyst does.

That’s why, in a place so far or so dark that the Traveler dims, a Guardian can still wield great power.


Thank you, sorry it’s been awhile since I’ve done anything lore related

So, the Storm, Night, and Sun all use Light but not The Traveler’s light.
Makes sense.

I’m very curious as to what (if any) the new subclasses will be like.

I’ll edit my original post with the information you provided

Hey man, it’s totally cool. That’s what these discussions are for :slight_smile:

And I’m very curious too! There’s already a lot of speculation out there about new subclasses, and even some talk about Guardians wielding the Darkness…

Here’s a great video about that exact theory.

what I theorize is that we’ll have to scavenge Cabal weapons to fight against the Red Legion. OR The guardians might form an alliance with the Kings (not likely but still an option for a DLC)

And I for one think that there will be a vex subclass, given that they are presence for all 3 taken king subclass missions

I would love to use a slug rifle modified with foundry or Golden Age tech. Treads Upon Stars will always be my favorite primary.

Vex Guardians would also be neat.

Mine will always be DarkDrinker.
Would have been No Time To Explain but I never got it ;-;

Year 1 will always be Vision of confluence

Year 3 G-horn all the way

Yeah. Maybe the vex see the path to victory is the unknown, the known being us (Guardians) so they gift us with Time based subclasses

(Explained in one of Byf’s other video, why Destiny …is called Destiny)

I’ve been trying to research Sunbreakers for a while yet always hit a brick wall. Specifically, were they a modified/evolved version of the Firebreak Order who learnt to use their Light in a different way? Did they leave the City before Lysander/Osiris or later on after their argument with Zavala? Does Saint-14 now know how to channel Solar since he went to see Osiris at the Forge on Mercury? Why are the Sunbreakers “lost in time” after their fights with the Vex and where are they now?

All of it fascinates me because it implies we can channel our Light in different ways away from the Traveller. Which is a truly convenient chance for Bungie to rework subclasses, but also implies from a Lore perspective that we can learn an almost limitless amount of knowledge about how to modify our Light.

And if anyone can answer any of those, you’re far better at reading these cards than I am. :joy:


Since the Sunbreakers are working for Osiris, perhaps they ended up in the Vex network as well. It’s also possible that the Vex Praedyth’d them, or at least a number of them. Ouros is still at large as far as we know.

One of my first topics was asking after her and Shin Malphur specifically, and we eventually arrived at the conclusion that their absence is likely because they are elsewhere dealing with important events which are part of their own story for now.

Ive read the cards and listen to all dialogue protaning to anything Sunbreaker, and here is my theory
(warning, some of this may be inaccurate or vague, I’m a bit rusty on my lore)

When Zavala is describing the Sunbreakers, he states that the Sunbreakers left after they made a deal with Osiris that Zavala refused to accept.

It’s hard to say if Saint-14 did or did not know about the Sunbreakers.
But given that the battle of Twilight gap most likely happened after the Sunbreakers left, its possible. There just isn’t enough data on the subject at the moment to provide a clear |Yes or No|

Their is only a few mentions of the firebreak order from in-game, besides that we know nothing about their order. But granted there is a possibility, but the current information is too vague to be sure.

Same thing follows the original Saint-14 theory

Even though we don’t witness the actual fight between the Sunbreakers and the Vex, we do have an example of someone being lost in time, specifically a Guardian.
Praedyth became lost in time inside the Vault of Glass after a failed raid. Specifically the Gorgons Maze. We know that the Gorgons had the ability to erase anything from time.
But Mercury is strange, because if you read the grimore on it. It was a garden world til the Vex turned the whole enchilada into a machine, in a few days.
But then they deserted Mercury for unknown reasons. Somewhere down the line, the Cabal sent a team to Mercury to investigate, but the team just vanished without a trace, their ships til primed to launch.

So with all of this we can assume that whatever the Vex found/made on Mercury, it was so powerful that the Vex deserted the planet. But there is one huge issue, when you activate the forge, Vex appear to fight you off. So either the Vex have contained whatever they had built/discovered or they destroyed it.
Sorry, got side tracked, what I’m saying is that given the appropriate circumstances, the Vex can make anyone become lost in time.

|And now I’m going to take a nap because my head hurts|

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I’m a little hard pressed to agree with the theory that the Taken King subclasses aren’t powered by the Traveler solely based on the fact that Ikora used her Stormcaller powers in the trailer. The only way that would work would be if the Cabal cut our connection to the Traveler off before their attack on the Tower, but I don’t see the Vangaurd letting that happen without a fight. It seems more believable that they cut off our connection after they overwhelmed the Tower, forcing us to retreat and regroup. Had we seen Ikora, or anyone, use their abilities during the speeches, then maybe I could jump on.

You bring up a good point. Previously I had assumed, judging by the Cabal’s performance in combat against Guardians, they would have had to make it difficult to use our abilities before attacking us to get the upper hand.

Once our resurrections were down, they could overwhelm us with superior numbers, given that we were boxing ourselves in by defending the City.

I agree that they would have had to catch us by surprise or go through the Vanguard to get to the Traveler. I wonder how and where the City’s air defenses (such as they are) factored into that.

Considering that the Cabal ships are made of almost indestructible material with Guardian weapons, given that the Phalanx shields can withstand even the sleeper simulate is a literally beam of solar energy and it doesn’t even scratch it. It’s safe to assume that the same air defenses that defeated the Fallen is like Water guns to the Cabal hull plating

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That’s in-game mechanics, but you could be right, as a single warship managed to punch a hole into Oryx’s Dreadnaught itself and was able to still serve as a FOB.

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Sorry, but yes this is a great example as, if you go and inspect the ship, you can see that it barely the hull plating.

The Fallen might also help us. If you read the lore, the Traveler was with the Fallen, the house of Eliksni, before he came to us. They even created Servitors as worship to ‘The Great Machine’, a.k.a. the Traveler. So they might care about the Traveler enough to help us, the Guardians, fight the Cabal.

I think the expansion about Osiris might have something to do with the Vex world Nessus.