I know we all are in this SIVA hype train but I want to know more about it like if SIVA can replicate itself by consuming an object then what is the point of a production Chamber? I would also like some thoughts on what the limits SIVA can go.
The Replication Complex was a way of controlling SIVA. Basically, it was the place you have to destroy to stop SIVA from spreading. But the Perfection Complex was another place that the SIVA Devil Splicers made to also control SIVA.
As for limits? It could, potentially, be limitless. Unless you’re talking food and what have you.
Like, materials for building, weaponry, technology? It’s good. Just food and drink aren’t available it seems.
Imagine what we could do with SIVA in-game. The modifications that can be done to armor and weapons. The Black Armory was already the producer of very high-quality weapons right? Imagine if they put SIVA into the mix. Really, the possibilities are, as Ember-3 put it, potentially limitless. Improved ships, sparrows, even possible upgrades to your Ghost. Maybe then he can have more use than a flashlight and scanner. And, well, our connection to the traveller. But think about a Ghost with something like a laser it can attack with.
You know how there is a division of Ghosts that work as basically agents for the Vanguard while they look for their Guardians? Imagine if the could fight as well as spy. SIVA may even be able to give them other useful gadgets, like a camouflage, or just straight up invisibility. Maybe, if there is a SIVA expansion, they add something similar to a skill tree for your Ghost? SIVA could also just boost their current skills as well.
The possibilities, and all of them currently locked because of one accident that happened 1-2 years ago. Even though I hate him, as i’m sure we all do, I agree with Rahool, we shouldn’t let this 1 mistake stop us from using it to improve ourselves.
However, the SIVA crisis brought up a good point when it comes to this Self-Replicating Nanotechnology.
What happens when it gets in the wrong hands? Or gets out of control?
Move the source into a part of the city that’s deserted, or just have it nearby. There, it’ll be in the safest possible location it can be in. The Fallen only got their hands on it because it was just sitting out in the open, with the only thing stopping them was, what, a cave-in? A few locked doors? That never stops the Fallen, especially when the blocked of place it unguarded. The closest thing Saladin had to a guard was Shiro, and he was just a scout, not meant to really stop an assault.
TL;DR = ACTUALLY GUARD THE DARN STUFF, DON’T JUST LEAVE IT ABANDONED WITH AN EASY TO USE “ON SWITCH,” IT’LL DO A LOT MORE GOOD THAN A FEW CAVE-INS AND DOORS.
And if it goes out of control? Just have some kind of “SIVA termination” switch NOT in the same facility as the somewhat sentient nanomachines that knows how its creators can kill it. Have it, like, the Tower or something. Actually, not a good idea as of right now. Then…how about somewhere in the city that it’ll be safe. Then, when the Tower is actually repaired, move it there. Shanks, we could possibly use SIVA to make a shield around the Tower, maybe even the entire Last City.
If this “Veil” is really coming, and if they really are the Darkness, or at least fight for the Darkness as we fight for the Traveller and the Light, we will need a much stronger defense to save humanity. One that will require the casting aside of past mistakes, and maybe even some morals.
what if we could combat the vex by swarming vex worlds like mercury with tons of SIVA so they can see what it feels like to have a world converted
that’s kinda dark.
Also that be doing it just to prove a point or revenge. The vex actually had a reason; they wanted to make everything perfect.
That, and because that was in their programming from the start i’m pretty sure. They’re basically just a bunch of robots that were never turned off because, well, the only people who could were slaughtered by the Hive years ago. So blame the Hive for the Vex being in the system because they killed the only people who could have stopped them.
Oh, and yeah, that’s kind of dark.
Im actually kinda shocked at you guys defending the vex
They’re progrmmed robots. They don’t choose. Would you arrest and try a robot that murders a person or its creator that programmed it to do that?
imagine sivafied vex… shudders
And that, my friend, would be the end of the world as we know it.
Can I get the information where you say that the only people who could turn off the Vex were slaughtered by the Hive. I don’t doubt you it is just that I am curious.
Can’t remember off the top off my head. I think it’s mentioned in some of the pages of the Book of Sorrow, around the time Auryx, a name I think I spelt right, killed Xivu Arath and Savathun (as in permanently, remember that) to become strong enough to kill Akka and gain the power to Take and became known as Oryx, The Taken King.
He also then brought them back through acts associated to their aspects I think. He basically pulled off a mini-Holocaust against them (whatever they were called, i’ll find out later and come back) to resurrect Xivu Arath, he then tricked them into thinking he wanted their help to kill Xivu Arath again, to which they agreed (stupid), then he killed and/or Took them to resurrect Savathun. War to resurrect a war goddess, and trickery to resurrect a trickery goddess.
It was pages 25(XXV) to 29(XXIX) against the Ecumene i’m pretty sure.
I’m reading through them, and XXIX details how Savathun, along with Xivu Arath, was made. Along with Oryx’s law of the Hive.
XXV details the Eucmene reacting to their extinction level event at the hands of Oryx.
I can’t find anything saying that the Eucmene could deactivate the Vex.
Exactly, they were made to protect their creators, the Ecumene, when Oryx and his sisters arrived. What’s kind of funny is that, if the Hive didn’t have the Sword Logic, the Vex of the past would have won. But because the Hive do have the Sword Logic, all it took was Oryx, during this time known as Auryx, killing his sisters permanently (kind of, read Books of Sorrow XXV to XXIX to understand) and the Worm God Akka to become strong enough to single handedly wipe out the Ecumene.
Why he didn’t deal with the Vex at the time as well? Why don’t you just go and ask him yourself…oh wait…SHANKS!
I was referencing the fact the Hive killed the Vex’s creators. That would be why it never says anything about the Ecumene being capable of turning them off, they never had the chance to. Besides, we never hear their side of the war, only Oryx’s. We don’t even know what they look like. If anything, there’s probably just descriptions in the lore. But there most likely isn’t since I don’t think Oryx was really the type to study and understand other living creatures, since he and the Hive tend to just kill everything. For…the somewhat okay reason of it being their only way to live.
I’m sure it says somewhere in the lore that the Ecumene created the Vex, since i’m fairly certain that Byf (or maybe another lore studier like Bearded_Grizzly) said that in a video dedicated to understanding the Vex’s history and creation.
Or this might be all wrong and i’m just spouting false claims.
(I hope not cuz that’d be a bit embarrassing).
Nobody wants to think about that. The Fallen alone went from a mild annoyance to an actual force to be feared from a gameplay point-of-view alone. Meanwhile the Vex already are.
Welp! I’m not sleeping well tonight!
Do you have any other sources for this? This is the first I’ve heard of this theory, and doing some brief research into it unearthed nothing but unsubstantiated speculation.
The Ecumene’s first appearance is in XXV: Dictata ir Dakaua, before Auryx kills his sisters and then Akka:
Decapitate. Defer. Promote Dakaua strategic dicta for victory against the Hive:
Identify supreme Hive leadership organisms AURASH, SATHONA, and XI RO.
Target these entities with maximum theater overkill. Caedometric release authorized.
Prosecute targets whenever they manifest. Hive cohesion will crumble. Total victory over the Hive will be achieved by cleansweep genocide.
Immediately after this is XXVI: star by star by star, where the sisters’ plan to kill the Ecumene is formed & Auryx kills Savathûn and Xivu Arath. The Vex are not mentioned, only the Ecumene directly:
“The Ecumene war angels have killed me so many times,” Auryx says, “that I dare not go out into the universe, lest I need my might to protect myself. My worm chews at my soul in hunger.”
“I know,” says cunning Savathûn. “I know a way. But it won’t work unless we are killing the Ecumene by the billions. How can we beat them?”
After this is XXVII: Eat the Sky, which documents the Ecumene’s encounter with Oryx, the Taken King:
The Hive entity Oryx/Aurash is deploying a paracausal ontopathogenic weapon that infects and subverts Ecumene forces. The weapon operates on individual targets. Targets are abducted and returned as compliant Hive slaves with inexplicable and physically illegal abilities.
All Ecumene clients should IMMEDIATELY devote all economic and cognitive resources to a countermeasure.
Again, no mention of the Vex as a countermeasure or protective force here. The members (“clients”) of the Amiable Ecumene are simply trying to defeat the Hive. The Ecumene are composed of several species, yes, but thus far there’s no proof that the Vex were one of those species.
The next mention of the Ecumene is XXIX: Carved in Ruin. It’s said the Ecumene are wholly destoryed:
The Ecumene fled into the void.
Then they [Oryx, Savathûn, & Xivu Arath] made war on the Ecumene for a thousand years, and exterminated them so wholly that nowhere except in this book are they remembered. This book and the mind of Taox, who was not found.
This is the end of the Ecumene in the Books of Sorrow, save a few mentions by other characters. It is stated that they are wiped out completely, and we never see or hear from them directly again. Of course, we can’t take the BOS fully at its word, but in this case there’s no real reason to believe that the Ecumene aren’t wiped out.
The Vex are first mentioned in XXXVIII: The partition of death. This is verse 4:8; meanwhile, the Ecumene were wiped out in verse 3:9. The Ecumene are not mentioned when the Vex arrive:
But while Oryx traveled to observe the Deep destroy an ancient fortress world, Crota conspired with his sisters to learn their secrets. “I too will experiment with a wound,” he said. With his sword Crota cut open a new wound, into a new space. In here he thought he might obtain a secret power.
Out of this wound came machines called Vex. They invaded Oryx’s throne world.
In XL: An Emperor For All Outcomes, Oryx kills all the Vex in his throne:
Oryx rushed home and read from the Tablets of Ruin. He put some of the Vex into wounds, to be taken by the power of the Deep. Thus he turned the Vex against each other. Quria manifested a range of tactics, but none of them were adaptive. Oryx crushed all the Vex in his throne.
Quria gets back into Oryx’s throne in XLI: Dreadnaught:
In the Nicha Thought-ship, Oryx hoped to find the location of the Gift Mast, which had been left behind by the Traveler. Oryx wanted to eat it.
But the Thought-ship was a trap. Upon it was Quria, Blade Transform.
Again, the Ecumene aren’t involved in any way. The only place they are mentioned in relation to the Vex is in XLIII: End of Failed Timeline:
Quria samples the Taox intelligence retrieved from the Ecumene gate. There are useful names. It feeds them to the simulation.
This is the only place the two are mentioned in the same card, and it says nothing about the Ecumene being the Vex’s creators. All the information we receive is that the Vex had a gate somewhere in Ecumene territory. Considering that the Amiable Ecumene was a very old, massive confederation of planets, this isn’t exactly conclusive:
In Radial Year 989 groove 3 our clients in the Dakaua Nest salvaged an interstellar spacecraft. Hull isotopes date the craft’s construction 24,000 years ago, around the same time the Fundament system dropped out of contact with our Amiable Ecumene.
Over the past century, perimeter security units of the Ecumene Status Army have FAILED to halt Hive incursions on seventeen (17!) separate worlds. All species in the Ecumene face extinction.
In the Books, there’s no evidence that the Ecumene created the Vex. There can be speculation, certainly, but it remains exactly that.
In the future, please be sure to link to any relevant lore when having discussions like these, even if you’re “sure” it exists. When no sources are used, incorrect information may be assumed to be fact, which only creates confusion.