The Friend of Our Enemy is Our Enemy

We do not see the Taken invading the Moon and when we do they tend to focus on us and the Fallen and leave the Hive alone although we still have taken Hive? The raid for example the Hive and the Taken practically work together. It is known that when an enemy is Taken it is controlled and augmented so then why are the Hive so willing to allow themselves to be controlled or are they simply not? If so, is it because they are aware that being taken can improve them in a sense of SIVA like it improved the Fallen or are the Hive the only race that is able to control themselves and think independently when in taken form? Was this affected by the death of Oryx?
Was just curious and wanted some thoughts/feedback, thank you.

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I believe the Hive willing let themselves be taken because they have been offered a “greater power” by their king. I don’t know about you but I would definitely take up an offer of power from my leader. I don’t think Oryx told them what happens when they are taken. Like they become hosts for the Darkness. And with the idea of them being independent all I have to say is someone is pulling the strings cough savathun cough so they are acting the same way they were under Oryx if not mroe calculated.


The Hive and the Taken don’t fight each other because Oryx, an Ascendent Hive, is the Taken King. Just as Cabal and Psions don’t kill each other, Hive and Acolytes don’t; they are part of a greater faction.

As with all the Taken enemies, the cards offer some small amount of insight. From The Taken: Acolyte:

Stop praying. Give up your recitations. Your faith is fulfilled. You will be strong now.

All Taken Hive take up the knife. But, as Oryx said, the two are not one and the same:

I am not Taken. The Hive is not the Deep. […] When I make my Taken I make them closer to perfect, I heal their wounds and enhance their strengths.

And the Hive seem to at least enjoy being Taken:

I have seen the enemy’s face. But that dying Thrall was no monster. It was in ecstasy. I felt the power as my knife bit home. I heard their song, for just a moment.

Given that Oryx’s broods send their tribute to him, and that he’s their leader, it wouldn’t be surprising if them being Taken was a willful process. However, the specifics aren’t known.

As far as we know, no. Their The Taken cards follow the same format as the rest, and within the text there’s no indication of them having any free will.


Not exactly.

When Oryx was killed some Taken started to desire the crown. A prime example is Malok, Pride of Oryx. Others were lost and directionless. Some even displayed characteristics of independent thought while under Oryx’s thrall.

From Noru’usk, Servant of Oryx:

A king is dead, but his power lingers.
A king is dead, and with him the fatal flaw.
This was not conquest, this war where Light yet offends.
This was selfish — a father’s rage in place of a king’s measured hand.
There was a time to conquer the Light that a purer truth might overtake all that played at inspiration.
That time was not now.
A son’s failure brought about the father’s fall.
A king is dead. His power lingers unclaimed.
A king is dead. His pride in a lineage meant to stretch across time and stars serving as his undoing.
But Noru’usk has no lineage to consider.
Noru’usk has no flaw.
He is a soldier. A general. A maker of war.
Once a servant, his eyes turn toward the vacant throne, there for the taking on the other side of this temporary cage.
A king is dead. Good riddance.
A king will rise.
If not Noru’usk, another.
If not another…

From Keksis, the Betrayed:

I am Keksis, a Captain of the Devils.
I am Taken. My guiding shadow has become formless, my directive is gone.
I know I have one; I cannot remember what it was.
Pinions of [Light] surround me; they are antithetical to my being. I hate them; perhaps an echo of my forgotten directive. I kill them.
I am not the same.
In my disparity, allies of [Light] have imprisoned me. I try to oppose their will, but intense cold has rendered me immobile. Without my directive, I am weak. I acquiesce.
After a time, I find I can hear. It is a new voice; it is many voices.
I will wait. I have taken a new shape.

From Sylok, the Defiled thirsts for your Light…:

…Ammm I strong enough, Oryx? Is it ttt-timme?

The Taken at least regain their former sense of will, even if it is not as strong as it once was.


You’re right; I was thinking of Acolytes/Thrall/etc. instead of Ultras & Majors. The bigger the boss, the more prone to sentience they seem. For Malok there may be some argument about Savathûn’s influence to be made (“Savathûn begat you to betray me” and all), but for the others there’s some measure of will amongst the higher-ups.

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Thrall are essentially mindless beasts, driven to kill. Their Taken card affirms this. Acolytes are craven and weak. Their Taken card affirms this. The Knights, however, their card berets them for betraying the Sword Logic. So yeah.

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