The mystery of the Oversoul. Is Crota truly dead?

With all the questioning about the current status of Oryx we maybe overlooked something. I was writing some lore rendition in Italian for a huge Hive lore project I am running now when something came to my mind.

It is a common knowledge that the colossal eye-like black and green sun in Crota’s throne world (visible in Crota’s End raid) is the physical embodiment of his Oversoul. That being said, even though Crota is clearly dispatched in the raid, his Oversoul is not vanishing, but standing still in the sky.
I wonder why is that. We know that weird, paracausal forces are working in the throne worlds and that life and death are non-linear concepts for the Hive… but we do know for sure that, when killed in his throne world, an ascendant Hive is gone for good.

Then why Crota’s Oversoul is not disappearing from the sky after his master fall?
I have two possible answers to that (but I am eager to hear from you, actually!)

  1. Maybe, that is the “Crota’s god-star” Toland is speaking about in “Ghost Fragment: The Hellmouth” and Crota’s true soul is actually the one Crota we have just taken down - remember, we need to stand on the plate where the Soul Crystal is standing to summon Crota, which means we are freeing his soul from that same crystal.

  2. The god star IS Crota’s soul, and this means that Crota is, somehow, not truly dead.

If point 2 is true, then Oryx could be still alive because his Oversoul (the Dreadnaught itself) is still intact? I don’t want to put this back in the plate at all (I believe Orys is dead for good too), but it is an interesting thought…

Oryx now resides in the Touch of Malice.

1 Like

I thought it was cleared in another post that the Touch of Malice didn’t have any Oryx’s soul inside, for reason there explained.

In Oryx tells us the ToM is his plan to live forever. He is the weapon. The weapon is him.

You named mystery wrong in the title.


When you return to Crota’s throne world in the TTK mission Last Rites, the Oversoul is no longer there. Compare this shot from Last Rites to this shot from Crota’s End. You can also see from this video of Last Rites that the Oversoul is not present.

You are right, but I wrote that with the phone set in the Italian keyboard (my native language). Now it’s correct!

You are right! That is why I started the topic in first place :slight_smile:

However, I never thought that was a sure sign of Crota’s Oversoul demise. There could be dozens of reasons why the Oversoul is not there anymore during Last Rites… and anyway, that doesn’t make the situation better for the case in which it doesn’t disappear when Crota is taken down :frowning:

My last guess, at this point, comparing the two situations, is that simply Bungie overlooked this detail: they should have the Oversoul to vanish at the end of the raid and simply forgot, implementing this in the Last Rites mission instead.

Thank you for your hint!

1 Like

It was stated by many content creators that this is not 100% the case.

The Touch of Malice is the embodiment of the philosophy of Oryx, which is the Sword Logic, the same of the Abyss/Darkness. He is speaking by figure of speech when he is saying that the weapon is him. And, anyway, is not correct by all degrees too, because he states that his downfall will happen because of someone that truly understands him, someone in commune with the Deep - which I hope is wrong, as we made him to fall.

The part about understanding him could be true, though: 1) we got the weapon through a painstakingly search in his Dreadnaught; 2) We had to amass a huge amount of his Calcified Fragments, which contains the story of his life in the form of the Books of Sorrow.

To wrap this up, the Touch of Malice is the ultimate testament of Oryx, his legacy and a mean of enforcing his philosophy and his views on the nature of the Universe, which is matching the Sword Logic. By using it, we are enforcing the Sword Logic all around, making him ultimately right and thus making him to live forever.


I’m pretty sure if you kill an ascendant hive in their throne realm, they die a true death.

1 Like