The reason the Nine let the Red Legion onto the system was because if they didn’t? We would have been scattered particles in the Void, as they would have just blown up the Sun. As for the Drifter? He is offering more than Guns. He is offering a chance away from the 9’s Jurisdiction. They caused the Red War, who knew what else? His relationship with them, at best, is tenuous. (See his reactions from the Nine Visions.)
So, in turn, I have to disagree with you entirely. The Nine caused the Red War in the better interests of both themselves, and the rest of the Sol System. Otherwise, we would have found out, they would overpower the System, and then take the Sun out.
Tl;Dr, the Nine saved themselves and the Sol System by not letting us know of the Red Legion, and the Drifter is offering much more than just a few guns.
I think that also Awoken are the least likely Guardians to fall to the darkness since they are creatures of both Light and Dark.
Aka, Drow. 
LOL that’s mad funny:joy:
It’s true though. They appear to have a Matriarchy, the look real spooky. Keep to themselves. It’s mostly checked the Drow stuff. Except for the unending hate of the Up-Worlders. Among other things though.
Actually, as far as we know, the Praxic Order attempts to capture “tainted” Guardians whenever possible. Aunor actually argued with Shin Malphur in the card “The Salt Mines” against the killing of the Dredgens. So while I won’t pretend that the Order is not above killing Guardians, it does not seem to be their primary motive, as you present it in your account.
Sincerely,
Your Friendly Neighborhood Praxic Sympathizer
Actually, the actions you are refering to were the actions of a singular group of Iron Lords. In “Loose Ends, Pt. III,” Lord Felwinter makes it clear that these actions, endangering civilians, is expressly against the Iron Decree. It is even implied that Felwinter ends up dueling the Lord in question over the matter. So while the Iron Lords might have had some problems, it is rather reductive to say that they all behave this way.
Sincerely,
Your Friendly Neighborhood Praxic Sympathizer
So, if you can’t tell from my replies to people, I chose to follow the Vanguard, on both my hunter (main) and titian, my two characters I care about. I chose this for a few reasons. First, I have read through all the lore. Because of this, I don’t trust the Drifter. Looking at the whole picture, he seems to me a con artist that only really cares about getting what he wants. He allowed Guardians to die in the testing of Gambit Prime, a game that serves the City no function. It isn’t a strike, it isn’t the Crucible, which is a training ground. It was a self-proclaimed scam designed to make people rich. And while the Guardians did choose to participate, it still falls on the Drifter. He could have intervened, but did not, costing the City Guardians. My choice also stems from his associates. SPOILERS if you have not read “For Every Rose, A Thorn.” The Drifter was associated with Shin and the Shadows, and given they are still interacting, I categorize them together. I understant Shin’s philosophy, but I disagree. I think tempting the Darkness in that manner is too dangerous, even with him watching over. However, while I don’t approve, that does not mean I would act against them. Shin seems to have everything under control, so for the time being, I will observe. If things get out of hand, I will introduce these “Dredgens” to the Void. This is the same philosophy I have taken with the Drifter. I don’t trust him, but I also will not stop him for now. Oddly enough, most people seem to be forgetting that this is the official position of the Praxic Order. Admittedly, they may have been to eager to banish the Drifter, but after the investigation, they came to the same conclusion I did. Many people have pointed out siding with the Vanguard is actually siding with the Order, and that is totally true. However, I am proud of that. If given the opportunity, I would join the Order, as they are the ones “watching the watchers,” so to speak. Also, while they don’t always follow every order, they ultimately are a part of the City’s structure, under the Vanguard. This is very similar to my philosophy. While I will also agree that the Vanguard has serious issues, I don’t think that justifies the burn it to the ground philosophy. They do need to be held accountable for their failures, but that does not justify siding with the Drifter, in my opinion. I am still furious with them over the handling of Cayde’s death, and I don’t always follow their orders, but at the end of the day, they are the closest thing to order we have, and I will stand with them.
Under the City’s Structure, yet they can wipe out a City block to get what they want. The Drifter, on the Other Hand, realizes the City? It’s already a failing option. We were wiped out by the Cabal, (With Aid from the Nine, might I add.) And while we may be getting back up on our feet, we also need to realize, We should stop celebrating early. (Look at how we do Age of triumph, and everything goes to hell, and we do it again and again.)
The Vanguard won’t learn from their mistakes. Look at the sudden transition of Twilight Gap, to the Great Disaster. We got our teeth kicked in, and we didn’t learn when to just lie down. And that got even more Guardians killed. It does Justify siding with the Drifter.
They have failed us one too many times, and the Drifter? He has yet to betray our trust, He has yet to kill as many Guardians under an order as the Vanguard has. He has given us the stopping power necessary to fight against the Darkness by using it. And he? He already has a much more powerful force than the Vanguard. But he is still trusting them to not kill him outright, as they are with him. And this Praxic Order crap? It’s an attack on that foundation of trust. And besides, the Drifter has abandoned those Shadows of Yor, so I’d rather you not categorize them together, when he has continually tried pushing them back and away.
Tl;dr, just continual support of the Drifter cuz the Vanguard has failed us one too many times, and we need a new person to lead instead of a bunch of idiots who won’t learn from their mistakes.
And here we have polar opposites arguing over who is right, personally I agree with Ember about their failures and stuff, but there is use still in the City, but the Vanguard? It needs a hard reset, or to be taken out of power. The City Age is a safer age, but needs people who can learn and adapt. From what I can gather fromt this debate, both sides have risks, but the Vanguard have lead to failure after failure. What our Guardians are doing is what needs to be done out of the concern for the City, and wasn’t ordered by the Vanguard.
The Red War was like the Shays’ Rebellion for the City. It showed the weakness of the Vanguard. Without their Light, they are nothing. When the going gets tough they don’t push through and protect at any cost. They are the culmination of “all bark and no bite” nowadays and have failed to adapt. All of the major victories and big steps towards the safety of the City, were missions that the Vanguard highly opposed, had been made illegal to go on by the Vanguard, or outright had no influence from the Vanguard.
It’s time for the Vanguard to get off it’s ass and fix itself, or step down. This has been my analysis on the Vanguard as a third party. Now as for the Drifter?
Yes, siding with him has it’s risks but we have seen no failure to adapt, no massive slaughterhouses of Guardians. And no disrespect for the slaughtered Guardians. He knows when to pull out when things get too hot to handle and not to keep your hand in the fire until it’s burnt to the bone. He isn’t a coward, he is a survivalist, the Vanguard has shown again and again that they don’t know when to pull out.
He may lie, run, and toy with the Darkness, but he is doing what is necessary to survive, he is doing what is needed to punch back. The Vanguard has failed fantastically on many levels resulting in the deaths of millions. While showing they have grit… this isn’t a good thing to have shown… the Drifter (while in no position of power) hasn’t done any of this. He has shown what is needed in the world we live in, the traits of a survivalist, not a proud government that is stubborn and shown signs of reckless decision making and destructive behavior.
In conclusion, while we don’t know much about him, the Drifter has shown to be a better choice on nearly every level. If you want to do what’s right for the City, select the Drifter. He can relate more to the people, he can give the City the skills needed, he knows how this world works, he knows what needs to be done.
Both of you have fair points. I will concede that the Vanguard has some major work to do in order to rebuild their strength and the Guardians’ trust in them. However, I still cannot support the Drifter. Continuing with the early American analogy, if the Vanguard is the Articles of Confederation, then the Drifter is the sort of anarchy that no government represents. If there was an alternative authority to side with, I might, one that represented the people in general. However, the Drifter has only his and a few people’s interests that he considers. This is not a system of government, but the sort of self-serving morals that anarchists embrace. So while I understand why you guys side with him, I still refuse to support those who actively destabilize the City through this ideological war.
As a side bar, @Ember-3, I wouldn’t say that the Drifter is opposed to the Shadows. He explicitly states, in the allegiance quest recordings, that Aunor crashed a hand-off he was having with them. At best, that could be read as he has distanced himself from them, but is still doing business on a strictly professional basis. However, you don’t do business with those you are “pushing back.”
While yes he seems to go by anarchist rules, he understands what world he lives in. He isn’t pretending that everything is okay and that we won the war after a win from a big battle. The Drifter is (in my opinion) more like the rest of the populous than the VG. He is scared just like the rest of everyone else. The VG is proud and cocky. I would side with someone who knows what world we are living in, whether there is structure or not, this is a post apocalypse, and we need someone who knows what they’re doing.
This is why I like arguing. LOTS of text. Time to read!
Exactly! I love coming on here because I love to debate, and there are very few people I can talk to when it comes to Destiny. Essentially no one I know is interested in the deep lore, so I come here so I can have pointless arguments with you guys over moral quandaries in video games.
I don’t believe Business partners do things to “piss them off”. As that is why he made the Dredgen Title. Has he done dealings in the past? Yes. Is he now? That is a question I feel should be answered. But even then, the Shadows were people trying to understand Yor’s PoV. [[Every Rose, A Thorn]]
So I don’t see how, or why, they would be seen as evil.
I wouldn’t say that the Shadows are necessarily evil. There is some arguement concerning their actions toward Aunor (ransoming her ghost), but I don’t think they represent the whole group. I believe that what Dredgen Yor did was evil, though, and they tread a path very close to his. So while I don’t think they are automatically evil, they are tempting a power that is too dangerous, in my opinion, to tempt. I am worried about the destruction they could cause if they fully succumb.
Which is why we have a certain Shin Malphur, no?
Yeah, but the Drifter has left that life behind which means he does have a moral compass (or at least is smart enough to know that’s gonna get him killed). He is not all bad, as is the Vanguard but they have done a lot more wrong than a few fight clubs and some lying and manipulation. They’ve caused death, a whole lotta death. So, if I were to pick, it would still be Drifter.
Completely fair. I am not necessary trying to convince anyone, and I think you too definitely have valid reasons for siding with him. It is just a difference of perspective. You guys are more or less fed up with the Vanguard, so you side with the next best. I don’t trust him, and I am willing to give the Vanguard another shot. Agree to disagree.
There’s a fair bit of misinformation in some of the replies to this post. If you want to explain why you chose one side over the other, or neither or both sides, for the allegiance quest, then that’s fine. But if you want to argue that one side is better or worse than the other, please provide sources or actual evidence to back up your argument. Refrain from making wildly exaggerated claims which have no basis in the story/lore or cherry picking evidence which supports your argument while ignoring anything which goes against it.