Have you folks read the new entry/ies yet??
and now reading time
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yes, so based on the new entries apparently the game was changed by the gardener, a new variable introduced, I believe this is the traveler as this is the natural connection my mind makes (plus destiny without the traveler isn’t destiny at all, the traveler being the new variable that changes the game) this brings me to why the gardener had to intervene, the card mentions “one final shape” which is vaguely reminiscent of the perfect world (to them) the hive strive to create plus this quote even further connecting the winnower and the sword logic :
Everything will be the same. Your new rule will only make great false cysts of horror full of things that should not exist that cannot withstand existence that will suffer and scream as their rich blisters fill with effluent and rot around them, and when they pop they will blight the whole garden. Whatever exists because it must exist and because it permits no other way of existence has the absolute claim to existence. That is the only law.
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I am still hesitant to say the Gardener here is the Traveler. I can see why many think it is, but I am still skeptical the Traveler is the only source of light, which the Gardner here seems to be becoming.
From what I’m getting from what it’s saying is that whatever the Gardener became, which I think it’s the Traveller as well, is a part of the Gardener, but not the Gardener itself, it’s just a subsection of what the Gardener is.
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I like how you phrased that. 10/10
Doesn’t Rasputin call the Traveler “The Gardener”?
Yes, he does. (twent)
though what would Rasputin know of ancient things that existed long before him or any human (I think) from a machines perspective, the traveler goes around and where it does life sprouts, Therefore the name “The Gardener” but it is a strange coincidence.
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I’m pretty sure it’s straight up talking about the Light and the Darkness, and that the book cover is using those shapes of a circle and a triangle to get us to, what’s the best way to put it, relate and connect the dots. Like, “Gardener equals Circle, and Circle normally equals Traveler, and Traveler equals Light, so Gardener equals Light.” You know, that method of studying, assign the concept to an image or phrase.
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eh, that’s fair (20 characters)
I just had a theory, what if the gardener/winnower aren’t actual beings, but concepts given shape through their acolytes, the traveler being a physical embodiment of the gardener, and the worm gods being the embodiment of the winnower, they exist because there are beings to make them exist
Who is writing this book then?
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huh, well theories are theories for a reason, didn’t think of that
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alright, I want to hear you all’s reasoning on whether p53 is an agent of the darkness or light (I feel an unexplained need to revive this page whenever I see it)
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I would say the protein acts more in accordance with the Lights principles.
For the sake of discussion, I’m going to say that it aligns more with the Darkness. If something steps outside the rules, it dies. This kind of parallels what I thought the Winnower was saying about the patterns that ruled the universe and it’s apparent surprise when the suggestion to change the game, and with it, the patterns, was put forth by the Gardener. It also kind of aligns with what I’ve thought the Darkness was about for a while. I think it’s about strict order, being fair, and only keeping the strong while killing the weak, which all are shown by p53.
I’m looking forward to hearing and participating in this discussion. I think it might just be important later on, though that’s just a guess.
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Except the p53 protein kills the strong cells if they gained that strength by taking a path antithetical to the needs of the body to continue to survive in what the body assumes to be its optimal state. Given the analogy of a mammalian body, let’s take it one more logical step and use a human. Humans have one of the best, if not the best, anti-cancer immune systems on the planet. Because of this, we cannot regrow limbs or most of our organs. Cellular propagation on that level is almost immediately shut down to keep it from potentially spiraling out of control into a lethal cancer (https://www.seeker.com/why-cant-humans-regenerate-body-parts-1767727453.html among others). However, who is to say it would happen every time we needed to regrow a limb or appendage or organ? I believe the same is true of the pattern the Winnower enforces. The pattern is satisfying or fulfilling to the Winnowers idea of a perfect reality so it enforces it even though nothing new ever takes place and if something were to be lost it would never be replaced. Conversely, the Gardeners new plan seems to be to take that pattern and loosen its restrictions so new life can grow and perhaps improve reality, even at the expense of a few flowers in the Garden being lost. P53 keeps life from spreading uncontrollably, much like the Light seems to allow life to spread within certain parameters. P53 does not kill off life until it breaches those parameters and the Sword Logic does not allow for the spread of life at all unless that life is actively consuming and eradicating other life.
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I feel that quite a few things fall into a grey area, kinda like humans as a whole aren’t really for or against much, if you think something chances are someone will disagree. Because of this chaotic neutral I feel that humans (and subsequently p53) don’t really fall into any role of an “agent” as we ourselves are conflicting
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P53 isn’t a part of the dark v light conflict it’s just a protein now in the lore book it might be being used as an analogy but the protein it’s self holds no meaning in destiny’s story