Lets Talk: The Symmetry and more

though most will know this I used the Ishtar Collectives resources on the subject for quotes and general info
( I received a gentle reminder on my last upload so I decided to make something serious)
(note) a bit biased

So my friends due to my love of lore I decided to refresh people on my favorite faction, The symmetry, so as a quick refresher the symmetry’s core beliefs contain

  1. the light cannot exist without the darkness, the darkness without light, this could be compared to the fact that without light, shadow cannot exist (please note that the text after this is a theory) this states my previous point (you can find it on discord) that we are fighting in a never ending war of the sky verses the deep that I have named “the War for the Final Shape” the circles being infinitely complex (The Traveler) who has united many races together, and the triangle a simple shape (the deep/triangle ships?) that has focused on one race (the Hive/maybe vex) to conquer and kill anything in there way to progress the universe into its final shape, this excerpt from the books of sorrows XXIII: fire without fuel states

Sorrow, because we have killed so much (eighteen species this century alone), and joy for the same reason. Joy that we have put down these blights. Scoured them away and left the universe clean, ready to move towards its final shape. We are a wind of progress. Ripping parasites from the material world — for if they were not parasites, we would be unable to kill them, and they would still exist. And what is that final shape? It is a fire without fuel, burning forever, killing death, asking a question that is its own answer, entirely itself. That is what we must become.

this of which provides some very, very loose “proof” for this, sadly i could not find much support that the traveler is doing the same but here is another excerpt from the books of sorrows, XIX: Crusaders

They did nothing to advance the cause of life! They burnt up time and matter and thought on this solipsistic, onanistic pursuit of safety, insulating themselves from death, making a regressive pocket of useless stability. When they could have helped whittle the universe towards its final, perfect form!

  • Light and Darkness must co-exist, and one balances the other in a symmetric relationship. - Ishtar staff
  1. the second one is that all light and dark are connected across space and time, which would make sense if you know of the theory put out in Book: Ghost Stories “no rez for the weary”

What do we do when we bring our Guardians back? What is the magical heart of the process? Are we like the City’s probability kilns, twisting the quantum vacuum in our favor to yield matter?
Perhaps. Perhaps. But certain members of a cult I shall not directly name have their own specific interpretation of this process. “When you bring him back,” they told me, "you must have a template… an image to provide you with the information you need. Where do you find that template? Simply in a neighboring timeline. A place where he is still alive and intact.

This idea supports the second view of Ulan tan and the symmetry, the more disturbing part is that the deep itself may be able to do something similar which can be seen through the hives usage of the “sword logic” to travel from point A to B though cutting a hole through time-space and traversing the distance instantly, a para-casual ability gifted by The Worm Gods the Hives deity’s.

All Light is connected “across space and time”, which would presumably also apply to Darkness. - Ishtar staff

  1. The third and last is that since the Traveler (A giant floating orb that gifted immortality) sacrificed itself for humanity, we should repay the favor and heal the Traveler, i’m not too much of a fan of this last one due to my inherent evilness, but ill summarize it. So when the traveler first came to our solar system it landed on the moons of Jupiter and eventually after visiting multiple planets went to mars and started Terra-forming it making hospitable worlds and eventually ushering humanity into a golden age, later the travelers enemy, The deep, or the darkness whichever you prefer attacked the traveler anticipating this halted the changed on Io and headed to earth to fight with the deep, the traveler ultimately winning but exhausting itself in an event known as the Collapse from here the traveler made the Ghosts who resurrected great warriors from the Golden age, some of there became ruthless warlords who devastated humanity till the rise of the heroes known as the Iron Lord to combat them and restore peace to humanity.

The Traveler sacrificed itself for humanity, and it is now up to humanity to return this good deed by healing the Traveler. - Ishtar staff

edited and re-edited over and over, this is Mech-1 signing off

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sorry for any writing errors, I am tired

I thought it is still not confirmed that Rasputin forced the Traveler to stay. I somewhere read that Traveler does not terraform, it just brings the planet to another timelane where it “lived”. Like the Ghosts do with us as you mentioned.

thank you friend, this would make sense of course, ah I remember the first cut-scene on mars and for raspy I could of sworn I read something about it

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I’ll link a post that was on here that debunks the theory that our crazy russian shot the space beach ball that gives us space magic.


I thought it terraformed Io? :thinking:

In future, please provide sources for all of the material you have quoted. The second quote is fine, since you’ve said that it comes from the lore entry No Rez For The Weary, although providing a link to that lore entry would be useful for those who would like to read the original source. But the other quotes (eg “Light and Darkness must co-exist, and one balances the other in a symmetric relationship”) all come from the Ulan-Tan category page on Ishtar Collective. The summary for Ulan-Tan was written by one of the Ishtar staff. Quoting from the summary without acknowledging the original source makes it seem either like those quotes come from in game sources, or you came up with those lines yourself. If you want to quote from the summary pages, that’s fine, but please make it clear that you are quoting something that someone else has written.

A lot of this is speculation and should be presented as such. “The War for the Final Shape” is a name that does not appear anywhere in the lore, let alone in anything about the Symmetry’s core beliefs. Nor is there any connection between the Symmetry and circles or triangles, or anything about the circles being infinitely complex or the triangle a simple shape.

The Traveler didn’t go to Mars first when it arrived in our solar system. According to Hardy’s Journey, it first made “major changes” to two of Jupiter’s moons, disappeared for fourteen months, then headed to Mercury, disappeared for another seven months, then appeared next to Venus. Evie Calumet, a scientist on the Ares One team, was able to track the movements of the Traveler and found that it was next going to appear at Mars. The Ares One team later travelled to Mars to make contact with the Traveler.

Rasputin attacking the Traveler to stop it from leaving during the Collapse is a misconception which is often repeated. The post linked by Cayde_6 provides an excellent explanation of why there isn’t any evidence supporting this theory, and plenty of evidence showing that the Traveler did not leave humanity during the Collapse.

The main reason that people came up with the “Rasputin shot the Traveler” theory in the first place is because of Ghost Fragment: Rasputin 5. This card is not a record of actual events but a contingency protocol, as confirmed by Seth Dickinson, one of the writers. It says that IF these conditions are met, THEN I (Rasputin) will carry out these actions. So it’s not evidence that Rasputin shot the Traveler, only that he had a plan to do so if it looked like the Traveler was going to leave. A lot of people read this card as if it’s describing what actually happened though, hence why they think it shows that Rasputin shot the Traveler.

The only other place where it’s mentioned (prior to Black Armory) that Rasputin may have had plans to use against the Traveler if necessary is Ghost Fragment: Old Russia 3, but again that says nothing to indicate that Rasputin shot the Traveler. Black Armory included the unsecured/OUTCRY entry which also mentions the Loki Crown protocol from Rasputin 5, but, like Rasputin 5, it seems to be another contingency protocol, not a record of events.

To add to what was said in the linked post, further evidence that the Traveler was not planning on leaving humanity can be found in Ghost Fragment: Cayde-6. This card shows that the Traveler left Io in the middle of terraforming it “prior to the Collapse”. The most likely reason for this is that the Traveler detected the impending arrival of the Darkness. As a result, it headed back to Earth to protect humanity. If it was going to leave before the Darkness showed up, then it would have done so at this point.

In At the Gate | Part I, it says:

Give Uldren Sov the chance to torment a Guardian, and he will take it faster than you can shout, “Rasputin shot the Traveler,” an opinion he lobs into Guardians’ minds whenever he can.

This isn’t conclusive proof as such but when added together with all the other evidence that Rasputin didn’t shoot the Traveler, it does suggest that Uldren may have deliberately misled guardians into believing that Rasputin shot the Traveler.


The Traveler does terraform planets (and moons). There are several sources which mention the Traverler’s terraforming. From Ghost Fragment: Human 4:

I knew I’d never fly another mission like that. I recognized the need for a new love. That’s why I threw my fresh cognitive skills into understanding the Traveler. How can one entity so quickly and utterly remake an entire world? Fifty years later, I’m conversant in high mathematics, particularly topological thoughts and the slippery irreality of Light. I’m involved in a project to study the Traveler’s terraforming actions right now.

One of the Arcology announcements you can hear during the Utopia mission says this:

Attention science lovers! The Collective’s lecture on the terraforming of Io begins in five minutes in the Cassini Library.

From the Fossilized Hermaion Blossom item description:

Fossilized flowers from the Hermaion trees created by the Traveler when it terraformed Mercury.

From the Tractor Cannon lore entry:

Decades later they joined the Ishtar Collective on Venus to study the enigmatic ruins unearthed by the Traveler’s terraforming.

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deeply sorry for the lore inconsistency, It seems I am quite the fool, in my attempt to make something worthwhile on a quick time scale I overlooked many things, will update a soon as possible.

lastly thanks for helping me improve