Meta: Research Bias


#1

We just posted a new episode about bias in research!

What did you think of this episode? Should we do more episodes like this? Let us know what you think :slight_smile:


Wielding the Light
#2

#3

I like the idea of doing more of these. Too many people don’t understand how research is done or how to do it properly, and let their biases cloud their judgement, so to have someone explain it properly will hopefully allow many aspiring “loremasters” to see their limitations and reserve judgement until they have weighed it properly.

For me, working on Destinypedia has instilled in me a “Wikipedian” sense of skepticism and open mindedness when it comes to chronicling lore. Speculation is at a minimum except where relevant to what kind of information is being recorded. Also, and this is probably exclusive to me for the most part but, I can understand the allegorical and metaphorical language the Grimoire writers utilize when writing Destiny lore. This comes from my having read many books and stories where you have to think about what you’re reading.

For the Books of Sorrow, I take the position that they are part history and part propaganda. Verse “Dreadnaught” and Calcified Fragments: Insight straight out tell you that the Books are not all that they seem, particularly the latter. The historical part of it is that it tells us the origins and history of one of our enemies, albeit from a limited point of view. It is after all written by one of the Hive god-kings. Hopefully there’ll be more Grimoire “works” of this quality by Mr. Dickinson if Bungie hires him again. There’s a lot more out there. But that’s all I have to say about my personal view of the Books.

I do plan on listening to more of the podcast, particularly your Books of Sorrow analyses, as Hive lore is a favorite of mine, when I find time to.


#4

Thanks very much for the feedback @GhostDante!


#5

Thanks @GhostDante ! This is definitely a topic that is near and dear to my heart so I’m glad someone else appreciates it :grinning:


#6

great episode @PurpleChimera


#7

i loved this episode. Coming from an analytical standpoint, i would love an episode on how to properly convey different levels of certainty for theories, like possible, probable etc. All too often i see people use words like “confirmed” or “its 99% sure” when in fact that level of certainty hasnt been reached yet. This is especially important for public figures within the lore community.


#8

You know, I feel like I know someone who has really strong feelings on degrees of certainty but I can’t remember who it is… :wink:


#9

I really enjoy these kinds of episodes :smile:
it really appeals to my autism that makes me sense my surroundings in details only & crack every information into it’s pure core, when I try to analyze & categorize them & I love to use this on something like Destiny & it’s lore :heart:

Whenever I do some researches for a Destiny theory, I kinda do it the same way as you’ve explained it there @PurpleChimera & I also give consideration to the way the informations are being presented in the game + how Bungie emphasizes them to the main story. Then I categorize them in a ranking system like this:

  1. cutscenes (especially dialogues)
  2. in-game dialogues during missions (ranked again in a. main story-missions & b. side story-missions)
  3. random quotes from NPCs
  4. in-game text (a. gear descriptions, b. quest descriptions, c. Enviroment/Level-Design)
  5. grimoire-cards

And then I try to determine whether the informations are primary- or secondary sources just as explained by Purple, which specifies this ranking system again in more sections, especially the grimoire-cards.
Now, whenever I got a theory about something & look for patterns, I try to work my way up the ranking system in order to tie it inductively to the main story. I do this because I want to determine how likely a topic is to be solved in the near future (as any type of content drop, DLCs or next base game).

There’s just 1 thing I’ve problems with because I don’t know whether to include it to the source ranking or not:

soundtracks! I’m hyper-autistic about music & there are sooo many clues within the soundtracks!
For example the Fallen-soundtrack does have the Traveler-theme in it. the Fallen SABER sountrack has synths typically used for other Fallen related soundtracks but the SABER soundtrack itself is a variation of the Warmind-soundtrack, which emphasizes the SABER-Rasputin-theory I’ve heard in a DestinyLoreCast I think? I believe it was from AnonPig (Just as a comparison: the Shield Brothers-soundtrack is a variation of the original Cabal soundtrack but partly uses the typical Taken synths. In both cases we fight enemies each in an enviroment that belongs to someone else. If the theory’s correct then the soundtracks we hear in both fights emphasizes the actual enemy! - end of spinfoilerinos)

Now my question is, should the soundtracks be considered as well when researching Destiny’s story? :thinking:


#10

oh my goodness. I don’t know why it didn’t occur to me to consider the soundtracks! I am a total music nerd and I listen to the soundtrack all the time but I typically listen to it out of context of the game (like on my phone while I’m cleaning the house). I have kids so when I play Destiny I typically play with the sound off (I KNOW IT’S AWFUL) so I can hear if my kids wake up.
I’m fascinated by these connections you have found and will definitely be looking into them more!

As far as where to rank them…that’s a really, really great question. While it’s certainly possible for Bungie to plant hints in the soundtrack, it’s much more likely that the composers were given the game play and composed for that-i.e. They were given footage of the SABER strike and created a soundtrack that incorporated Fallen and Warmind themes because that’s what the SABER strike is about. But following down this line of thought could lead to some very interesting connections.
Keep up the good research! :purple_heart:


#11

That’s fascinating!
I do notice some similarlities in the soundtrack sometimes like in the Sepiks Perfected strike where it’s the original Sepiks theme but with SIVA(Techno) tracks.


#12

yeah exactly, the whole soundtrack for Sepiks Prime’s being played by the synthesizer used for the SIVA tracks.
speaking of SIVA: its theme always starts with a twisted variation of the guardian-theme…which is weird!

also the Sepiks Prime-soundtrack itself contains 2 variations of the Guardian-theme, which could emphasize the purpose of Sepiks, especially in the past, the war against the guardians + all the human skulls & other bones piled up in the Devil’s Lair as offerings I think.

there’s also something I noticed in the Shadow Thief-soundtrack which is being played during that strike against Taniks: it’s pretty much built up of a variation from a theme that appears at the end of the “Excerpt from the Hope”-soundtrack which has been played during the title screen back in year 1 & sometimes reappears at the Tower. the original version is actually vocalized by a choir & the Taniks version uses the typical Fallen synths. But while the original version’s just an excerpt, the Taniks one actually sounds like a full version! Also, given the name of the soundtrack, it fits for both races because both are trying to gain back the glory provided by the Traveler.
Im just wondering why this theme has been dedicated to Taniks. He’s a unique Fallen anyway because he’s the only Fallen so far that has been resurrected by SIVA which suggests whether he’s been a machine before. This all makes Taniks really an interesting character & I hope we’ll be able to see more of his lore!


Is Taniks a Fallen Guardian?
#13

I have to say that this is one of my favorites - as I mentioned to @PurpleChimera when I first heard it, I went over to the FFC group and immediately requested the other co-hosts to listen to it.

Extremely well done summary of a very common issue when researching anything - but especially when researching something ‘informal’ like video game storylines and general fiction lore.


#14

Hey @BlueCrew86! Welcome to our forums! Really glad that you enjoyed this episode :smile:


#15

5 posts were merged into an existing topic: Is Taniks a Fallen Guardian?


#16

Can’t listen right now but bookmarking for later.

I’m new to the Lore so this will help hugely. Are there any people on YouTube I should be avoiding watching? Since I’m new, I don’t want to be watching the wrong information. :blush: Thanks!


#17

Hey there! I won’t tell you to avoid anyone, but there are some great lorecasters I can recommend. Our very own @AnonPig is one of them. I’ve linked a lot of Myelin Games’s videos in some of our biggest discussions. And MyNameIsByf also covers a lot of interesting material. Hope this helps! :grin:


#18

Brilliant, thank you. Is AnonPig on YouTube under that name? I watch Byf and Myelin a lot to be fair, although I’ve heard Sir Wallen is back (although I haven’t watched him yet).


#19

i do a podcast with PurpleChimera MythosMike and HandsomeDragon.


#20

Kex FTW = CONFIRMED

I’m at least 99% sure of that…though apparently that might not be enough. :stuck_out_tongue: