Secrets of the Vex: Vaulted Thrones

Greetings Guardians!

@TKfromthe90s and @HipNuts are coming to you today with yet another spinfoil theory of ours.

You might know TK from his widely successful and thorough post on the Aeon Cult or possibly myself from my initially harebrained Oryx theory, or my unorthodox thoughts on Yor. This time however, we have a hypothesis on the Vex for you.

Hold on to your Ghosts, hotshots. This is gonna be a long one.

We’ll begin by stating the thesis: The Vex have used their mastery of science in the place of Hive sorcery to forge a Throne World of their own design.


Let us begin with Quria. From the Book of Sorrows, when the Vex encountered the Hive, Quria attempted to analyze Oryx. It failed, but it passed on the Hive’s twisted Sword Logic to the Vex as a result. This information caused the following chain of Vex logic.

1.) The Vex wish to survive

2.) The Vex encounter Sword Logic

3.) The Vex incorporate the Sword Logic into their simulations.

4.) Sword Logic dictates that to survive, you must be stronger than everything else

5.) Sword Logic dictates that anything weak does not deserve to exist

6.) Therefore, to be stronger than everything else, everything else must cease to exist

7.) The Vex then decide to preemptively erase their eventual challengers with the assistance of time, thus fulfilling the Sword Logic; if only a bit early

8.) This chain of logic results in the Vex’s creation of the Vault of Glass: a laboratory in which to experiment with the erasure of potential challengers in service of the Sword Logic through the manipulation of time.


Now that we have covered the effects of Quria passing the Sword Logic on to the Vex collective, we know that the Vex as a whole must also be aware of Throne Worlds. Based on the info-dump from Quria, the Vex know a couple things about them.

1.) The act of tithing increases the power of the Throne World’s owner

2.) A Throne World acts as a backup/failsafe for when its owner is killed in the physical plane

Armed with this information, the Vex choose to construct a Throne World; what we know as the Vault of Glass. They also construct Atheon to serve as the owner and center of this Throne World. Next is the construction of the Vault around Atheon’s Glass Throne, as it will be the deepest part of the Throne World, just as Crota’s Oversoul Throne was. In the process of doing so, they quickly realize they need to establish two key elements thereof.

(I know I know. We like lists.)

1.) A way to erase enemies effectively, through a series of judges (Templar, Gorgons, Oracles) that determine if something deserves to exist or not. i.e. whether or not it is a threat to their idea of the perfect future or to their survival

2.) A system which guarantees their survival across all timelines.


We know that the Vex are capable of time travel, despite some radical ideas introduced by the Warlock Osiris. So then, we turn our attention back to Atheon’s Glass Throne. Within that Throne, we can clearly see two Vex gates, to past and future. Both converging on the present.

Two things exist as a result of that timeline convergence:

1.) A stable time loop

2.) A singular point at which to focus the accumulated knowledge from all of their kind across every timeline

This means that the Vex have not only reproduced the reset effect of the Hive’s Throne World with science, they’ve also managed to improve upon it by applying its effects to the entirety of their kind and using it as an immaterial vault for knowledge.

As the Conflux of these three time periods, Atheon provides a simple focal point into which the Vex within the Vault can funnel their accumulated information. All information gleaned from each point in time is funneled directly to him, making him “stronger” by providing more information about what stands before him and formulating more potential tactics for its destruction. This sounds quite similar to Oryx’s tithing system, and we believe that this is no accident.

This system takes the pre-Golden Age phrase “knowledge is power” and makes it quite literal. Sword Logic demands strength/power as a way of proving you deserve to exist. But the Vex accomplish this in a different way. The more ways they can devise to erase their enemies, the more efficiently they can do so. The more efficiently they can do so, the more they prove themselves in the Logic.

But this new logic is not founded upon slaughter or upon proving one’s strength through combat, as is with the Hive. No, no. Instead, it is founded on knowledge and the protection of that knowledge. Upon keeping a closed system which nothing can infiltrate or destroy unless it possesses greater knowledge. This, clearly, is no longer Sword Logic. But if not that, then what? We propose a new name. We propose that the ideology which currently drives the Vex be called…

Vault Logic.

And as a result of this “Vault Logic”, we can at last explain the purpose of the Vault of Glass. Put as simply as we can possibly make it…

1.) Vault of Glass is a Throne World for Atheon, Time’s Conflux.

2.) It provides a stable time loop for the Vex to grow ever stronger in their version of the Sword Logic.

3.) This version is just the tithing of knowledge

4.) This makes them more worthy to survive, proving their strength above others by removing those others from the equation.

5.) By this “Vault Logic”, the Vex become ever stronger, as long as they keep learning and their new knowledge isn’t proven wrong.

Well that’s it you guys. If you made it this far, that’s some serious commitment! Thank you from @TKfromthe90s and @HipNuts for reading. Seriously, this was a long read, so we wanna make sure we thank each and every last one of you for taking the time. Let us know what you think of the theory. Of course, we’ll be around to answer any possible questions you might have. We’ve also included a list relevant links for character or term references below.

Sword Logic-

Crota’s Oversoul-

Vault of Glass-

Throne World-


Was a total blast working on this with you!

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sames my hunter compatriot

Very interesting, but when we raid the Vault we kill Atheon and effectively destroy their experiment and we didn’t even know about Throne Worlds and the Tithing for it, but definitely really cool.

also, what about our Bomb Logic compared to this?

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Well bomb logic isnt really ours, its maras. And because of that its… pretty far removed from these.

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I thought Bomb Logic was the light equivalent of Sword Logic, with how complicated a bomb is when compared to a simple blade, like how a sphere is the most complicated three dimensional shape whereas a tetrahedron is the simplest. Simple vs Complex.

There some things I think don’t fit.

  1. Do we define Vex as separate individual or united calculating sistem? I think that Vex are sistem because they never challenge each other(which Hive do according to Sword Logic) they work as one organized machine, one big computer with many bodies aka Skynet. So Sword Logic doesn’t fit them as form of existing.
  2. Vault of Glass is located in a fixed place - on Venus but Throne world is a some creature’s own dimension and can only be entered through portal.
  3. Vault of Glass purpose isn’t match with Sword Logic. It was made to make for Vex a basement of operations in Sol system in space and time but Throne world is a representation of creature’s power and place where it can live forever.
  1. “Do we define Vex as separate individual or united calculating sistem? I think that Vex are sistem because they never challenge each other(which Hive do according to Sword Logic) they work as one organized machine, one big computer with many bodies aka Skynet. So Sword Logic doesn’t fit them as form of existing.” Challenging one another is merely a Hive combat ritual in service of the Logic, but it is not the only way to fulfill it. Making war on other races serves it just as well, and the Vex demonstrate such behavior constantly. The Vex follow a collective purpose, true, but it seems Vex Minds can exist for independent purposes. Panoptes and Atheon had entirely different goals and experiments, for example, and we know the Infinite Forest and Panoptes existed at the same time as the Vault and Atheon. Sword Logic does not depend on the makeup of a species, but upon their actions and their intent.

  2. “Vault of Glass is located in a fixed place - on Venus but Throne world is a some creature’s own dimension and can only be entered through portal.” The Vault of Glass can only be entered through the Vault door on Venus, which we permanently unsealed after killing Atheon. However, once you enter the Vault, you enter a realm in which the Vex control the rules of time and reality, just as a creature with a Throne World does when you enter their Throne. In addition, Vex attempt at a Throne World would not be a perfect replica of a Hive Throne , and would inherently possess a number of differences in its structure as a result. In addition, Oryx and Crota’s Thrones are seemingly located in fixed places as well, given that the only known ways to access them are through the Dreadnaught and Luna, respectively.

  3. “Vault of Glass purpose isn’t match with Sword Logic. It was made to make for Vex a basement of operations in Sol system in space and time but Throne world is a representation of creature’s power and place where it can live forever.” - The overall goal of the Vex as a race is to establish a future where they are the last living things, and therefore, the only living things. Every operation the Vex make is in service of that goal. Even the Hive, the most dedicated practitioners of Sword Logic don’t center every action around it, but each action they take contributes to the overall goal of being the last ones standing. The individual purpose of the Vault of Glass does not disprove the idea that the Vex may have been testing their own form of the Logic or Throne Worlds, much in the same way that Oryx gaining the power to Take does not mean he does not serve the Sword Logic. The action is unrelated, but it aids in accomplishing the overall goal.

I hope that answers your concerns!


Thanks for your reply. Very refined statements. But I want to add some notes to my point 2. I still we cannot describe VoG as “Throne World” because their basic mechanism is different. VoG is a Vex attempt to invade into our reality (aka stolen piece of our universe’s space-time) while Throne allows you to invade it to be trapped by it’s rules. Result looks familiar but process is different.
And that statement is applicable when trying to differ Vex’s and Hive’s goals. While Vex aim to make universe homogeneous and controllable and it concerns ALL matter(alive and not alive) Hive aim to make it united and subdued and Sword Logic is inapplicable to not alive matter in the universe.

Tito, thanks for the engagement!

I would counter “we cannot describe VoG as ‘Throne World’ because their basic mechanism is different” with just a re-iteration of what what TK said. You can use the same logic and deploy it in a slightly different way. I would even argue that they must deploy it in a different way due to their complete societal unification.

Also, what are the Hive doing if not attempting to invade our reality? they used the taken and their physical forces all as a way to press in on our space. Whether that’s in this dimension or the Ascendant. The only difference with the Vex is that the tool theyre using to combat our existence happens to be a dimension we reside in. It’s brilliant really.

I would apply a similar logic to your second point. The ritualistic combative nature of the Hive, as well as their worm bonds, has oft left members of their species shortsighted; too strictly adherent to their “nature.” So when you look to the Hive, their very survival is contingent on tithing through death. I don’t imagine that their worms would be much satisfied with the assimilation of a Centaur.

As always, just a theory and thanks again!


I would say that vog is not a fixed place as it can basically travel through time, same as atheon he still exists in their past memories. They can remake him, we truly could not destroy him without first destroying every place he is “stored”
Just a thought. Great post.

Also to note: (not sure) do the hive “will” their throne worlds into existence as the vex might “think” theirs into existence? A bit of willpower vs brainpower maybe?

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So time actually flows through VoG. not the other way around. Thats what it means to be a stable point in time. cause no matter what time does around VoG, it stays where it is.

Bit of a fun sidenote in reply to your “brain vs will”. We originally considered naming this post “Alchemy vs Sorcery” because of the Vex using science over “space magic”. These two races have a fun little dichotomy with each other.


Good job on this idea man, and to be honest this makes a lot of sense

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My entire theory is based from the idea of fantasy vs sci-fi.
The idea that Toland brought forth in his three queens theory, the first battle between the primordial broth and the atom. The atom won that battle but I believe the fight is still raging.

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