Traveler vs Darkness: Who is actually Evil?

@Just_A_Shadow, here is the thread I mentioned earlier.

Why do you say the Traveler ruined the Eliksni and Human civilizations?

Eliksni: the traveler stayed with them and when the darkness came all they were was a shield for the traveler, the traveler then preceded to leave and not help them, traveler did the same to humanity accept it stayed only because Rasputin made it

Aah, you refer to the idea that Rasputin shot it down.

I’m going to point you to this marvelous thread which addresses that very idea.


You don’t have to agree, but it has much support from the lore and the etymological structure of the lore.

I believe I already read that

Oh neat. Well I disagree with you that the Traveler caused the fall of the Eliksni civilization. One could argue that had the Traveler never arrived and uplifted them, the Eliksni would not have fallen as far as they did but there is no way to prove that the Darkness/Hive wouldn’t have arrived anyway.

I also disagree with the idea that Rasputin was somehow able to prevent the Traveler from leaving or that he ever attempted to do so. I agree that he had a plan for it called Loki Crown, but there is no evidence that it was ever enacted.

Yes but that also means no evidence it wasn’t enacted

The Traveler destroyed another civilization WAY before the Eliksni I think. I’ll have to go dig for it, but i’m pretty sure the Traveler has been doing this for a VERY long time. And that, i’m sure, is an understatement.

Edit: I just realized the way I phrased my claim sounded like the Traveler did it on purpose. What I meant was that it was doing it…unintentionally, may be the best way I can think of saying it. That it just left, some maybe not without a fight. I apologize for the misleading, that was 100% me not double checking my writing.

My personal theory (which is pretty spinfoil) is that The Traveler and The Darkness are really just higher beings playing a game for fun. My main proof for this is the Unveiling lore book.

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As soon as you find that, I would be very interested to hear what you dig up.

the only thing I can recall of something even close to your claim lies in the Books of sorrows, and in there it states that the traveler stayed and fought with the civilization even gifting them para-casual weapons, only fleeing when it was clear the hive had won, as for the fallen there aren’t nearly enough (if any) records of the fallen collapse but it did send their civilization into a golden age as well and I believe servitors were made in its image, and for humans all but one of the conditions for Rasputin plan to shoot down the traveler were reached and it wasn’t activated (well its implied but not in text I think though if not all requirements for it were reached I really doubt it happened), meaning the traveler stood with us as well gifting the ghosts, while its status as “good” or “evil” is under question I cant recall where it ever purposefully destroyed a civilization

(apologies for any inaccurate info)

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**** I phrased it wrong