Huh… I didn’t see it in that light… interesting. Thanks for contributing!
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Ha. Ha. Ha.
In that Light
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@Crystal ahh, for one I already brought this up grimore and all, two I always thought this was the cult of the symmetry (reads @TheSteelChimera reply) while memory I cant answer I had already established beforehand that the ghost can feel a “spark” or affinity for the light, the “will” or “self” has little to do with it in my opinion, still a solid theory though
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Now that I think of it, actually killing guardian is pretty easy, right? To kill a guardian, you kill their ghost, and a ghost actually isn’t that hard. You read about them getting killed pretty moderately in the books. So, what’s stupidly funny about that, is the amount of times your ghost is just sitting there, waiting for you to be able to respawn, and the guy who killed your guardian is just standing there, not menacingly. Are they just in awe at the fact they killed the body, they forget to kill the ghost, or what? You are open to a permanent death over and over, and they don’t do anything. Even the Scorn, who know how to kill a guardian, just start walking around as if the job is done. I know the argument you can make is “well the game would be pretty boring” or whatever. But come on! Their goal is literally to kill you, and they don’t do it.
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Your ghost does have a shield up when you are killed, and only certain types of rounds can kill a ghost. The shot that killed Sundance (Cayde’s ghost) was a modified Devourer bullet, one of the rounds that can kill a ghost. Same thing that Thorn fires, that’s why it is known as a guardian killer.
“’Sundance’ appears to be the victim of a single, catastrophic wound from a Devourer Bullet, modified to fire from a Scorn launcher. Projectile classified as ontological.”
“Define Devourer Bullet.”
“Payload matches the ballistics of a Weapon of Sorrow or a comparable Hive implement.”
https://www.ishtar-collective.net/records/the-murder-of-cayde-6?highlight=Sundance
Only certain weapons can kill a ghost, and that is why regular enemies can’t finish us. Sometimes they will shoot at our ghost, but it won’t do anything.
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Yeah, I guess that makes sense. But, still, there are some moments where your ghost should be dead, but isn’t.
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i get what you mean mate, had a vex hob snipe my ghost right through the core and nothing happened
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Okay, but now let’s think of this, what is powerful enough to kill a ghost? If my memory serves me correctly, Lord Felwinter killed a Warlord with a simple blast from his shotgun in the lore card Lord Felwinter (again, may be a different card or wrong all together, but I remember reading something)
Alright, I did the searching and here it is. (Lord Felwinter)
Felwinter’s shotgun cracked like thunder—once for the Warlord, and again for his Ghost.
So Felwinter’s shotgun (most likely the infamous Felwinter’s Lie) has been shown to have slain Lightbearers as well as the Red Death has (which is why it’s been banned by the VG). Which means that huge amounts of strength doesn’t need to be behind these weapons. I get that this is getting a tad off topic. But this is a legitmate question. How much fire power does one need. Because these “high power” Cabal weapons fail to kill our ghost yet a modded Surous Reigme can?
Whether this is just a lore/gameplay inconsistency or an actual thing is also up for debate. This also may have something to do with us being the “Traveler’s Chosen” or the “Chosen One” or something like that. But I don’t like that explanation so let’s try and figure out something else before defaulting to “we’re more special and powerful so…”
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I feel as though this was a kind of Lore inconsistency that can’t be explained. Either that, or it was a misshap. Maybe it also depends on the Ghost?
Maybe a user’s Light can reach a point that it shields the Ghost, rendering powerful objects allowing it to destroy the Ghost (Which, still, makes no sense. But I’m trying to play both sides atm.) So a Ghost/Guardian can get to a point of Power that would require something only short of, say, a Thorn Bullet to kill.
Either that, or maybe it was a misshap.
Plus, ghosts likely didn’t have the protective shells we have now in the dark age, meaning that any weapon could kill a ghost.
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That is fair, but I am still thinking about this. I just really dislike this whole “Chosen One” thing Bungie chose. I liked it a lot more that we were a guardian just like everyone else that did great things and ended up becoming a legend. It is a lot more satisfying to be someone to break from the norm and be great rather than be born great.
Awhile ago me and Ember had a debate on powerful characters (it was a tad short but still) and how they work/should work. He claims that he doesn’t like inherently powerful characters because there is no sense of achievement. Where as I agrue with so: while yes this doesn’t mean that they have to work extremely hard to achieve extreme feats of strength or power this opens up more realms of mental and emotional development. As well as this “power” is more usually the potential to be extremely powerful but requires work to properly use and harness such a thing. From a gameplay stand point, this makes little sense, but from a narrative stand point. That is a perfectly valid way to write a character.
What I am getting at with that tangent is this, while fair this could be something developed only when you have a stronger Light. This isn’t a very… how can I say this… good? Way to write a mechanic like this. Because we have had this throughout the duration of both games. Where in both we start with this. Which means that we have always been as powerful as we are at our PEAK in terms of the Light. Which is… infuriating a bit.
Another option, the “it was developed later.” Which is a bit better explanation for my mnd in terms of narrative standing. Aside from the fact that it has no known (to me) lore behind it to develop this, whether in game quotes or otherwise (which means if you can find some, please go ahead).
The final is simply that it is a mistake in the lore, which would also make sense. Which for now will be what I go with (mostly because I just dislike the whole implications of the Light Shield Theory).
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Also Sundance didn’t use her shield when she died. Dunno where I heard/read that though.
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If I recall correctly, there is the implication that a stronger connection to paracausal powers (Light or Dark) make a person more powerful and more resilient in the face of attack.
I am specifically thinking of the Jaren Ward/Dredgen Yor showdown. Malphur tells us that Ward never misses (and I’m inclined to believe that from what we’ve heard of Ward), and the Last Word fired multiple times, and yet the Thorn fired only once. This meant that Yor straight up tanked those shots, and it’s implied that his power from Light and Dark added together to make him more powerful/resilient. (Faith in Monster, For Every Rose a Thorn)
I wouldn’t be surprised if that kind of mechanic applies even when you’re using only once paracausal source. And we are told that Ghost do forge a “stronger connection to the Traveler” when their Guardians are more powerful (Hidden Messages, Honor Among Thieves). So if Felwinter had a stronger connection to Light (via ideology perhaps? or just plain skill) than Citan, than his Ghost would not have been able to resist the forceful application of Felwinter’s Light (delivered by way of shotgun).
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Well not all Guardians go with the " You have to kill a force called the Darkness" trope. for example there is a high possibility that on the opposing side of the planet from the Traveler there may still be War lords on that part of the planet. And also there’s the bad Shadows of Yor that decide to serve the Darkness. then there’s the emissary of the nine who decided to become the emissary and not be a guardian any more. and then there are Hunters who become bandits and also decide to protect a grouping of people as Shin and Jaren did.
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Here could be a possibility. Each ghost seems to have a certain guardian they need to find, after that first rez we become a whole unit. Now if you look at the two parts as a whole and think about the “self” as mind, body, and spirit.
We might be the body, ghost would be the spirit and we share the mind. ( only because our ghost keeps our memories from us because most would go insane if they could remember their past. I think.)
More like, in the case of the organic player character options the Ghost is literally regenerating all the tissue they have, including the grey matter that makes up the brain. In the case of Exo however, its pretty much like turning on a Playstation after the cord was yanked, except there was major file corruption.
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