A simple idea that seems to follow the symmetry of destiny.
Look at your ghost as a little servitor surrounded by little pyramid ships.
Now think about the Fallen and their creation of the servitor as a monument to their god. Why add the giant eye if it never had one?
Next the idea of titanomachy being the combined forces of the earth armada and not the darkness.
If the solar entry that everyone believes was the darkness was actually a second traveler, this second traveler, the “Gardener” in my opinion was the one responsible for the black holes that followed in the travelers wake.
Rasputin recognizes that this second traveler is about to create a black hole and uses the combined firepower of the earth fleet to blast the gardener into the moon, creating the hellmouth in return.
(If the gardener was actually trying to save our system with the black hole Rasputin messed up)
This idea of a second traveler fills some gaps for me in terms of the Fallen and their “whirlwind” and servitor design.
And brings some symmetry to the story, between spheres and pyramids.
Of course each pyramid could have a little orb at its center to fulfill the symmetry also.
A simple idea that seems to follow the symmetry of destiny.
Solid idea, I like it, also are you hyped for the return of D1 supers in destiny 2? (Btw I mean how fast they charge which is 5:00 minutes for a super without intellect)
I was excited to find the ghost/orb lookalike in the pyramid ship.
So excited to see what lore drops with the raid.
Yep 20 characters meep
“Now think about the Fallen and their creation of the servitor as a monument to their god. Why add the giant eye if it never had one?”
The servitors are not made in the Travelers likeness. They existed in some form or another before the traveler arrived, the eliksni depend on them for survival.
“If the solar entry that everyone believes was the darkness was actually a second traveler, this second traveler, the “Gardener” in my opinion was the one responsible for the black holes that followed in the travelers wake.”
The idea that it might be asecond traveler is nothing more than an idea. The humans did not know what they were looking at and, naturally, compared it to the last extra-solar visitor that defied scientific models. I also am not sure to what black holes you refer.
“Rasputin recognizes that this second traveler is about to create a black hole and uses the combined firepower of the earth fleet to blast the gardener into the moon, creating the hellmouth in return.”
The Hellmouth is a Hive construct, or perhaps a borehole left over from the Mining operation on the moon that the Hive took over. It has none of the defining characteristics of an impact.
If the eliksni whirlwind was a black hole then that means either A. The black holes that this Gardner left don’t act like traditional black holes or B. The Gardner isn’t real
It does not sound like a blackhole when described. Simply an uprooting of something the Eliksni had come to depend on coupled with a collapse similar to humanities.
The Gardener is Rasputins name for the Traveler.
Hmm, the collapse what I think of it as is the traveler leaves a bit of an emp type thing that knocks out technology in the system and then the traveler leaves them for dead at the hands of his enemies
The Traveler did not hurt humanity directly. The Collapse was a direct result of whatever force the Darkness used to damage the Traveler.
Which card leads you to believe that Rasputin calls the traveler the gardener?
This card is narrated by Rasputin. When it refers to the gardener not making herself alone, the common interpretation is that the Traveler failed/died because it/she did not cast off humanity/make herself alone like Rasputin did.
Love that card but could not remember which one it was.
I’m sorry but I can’t see that card being narrated by Rasputin, it is not even close to any other Rasputin card or conversation.
Interestingly, The Collective has that card filed under Rasputin.
Context is why Rasputin is commonly thought to be the narrator in this card.
They made me to be stronger than them to beat the unvanquished and survive the unthinkable and look look lo behold I am here alone, survivor. They made me to learn.
Everything died but I survived and I learned from it. From IT.
IT was stronger than everything. I fought IT with aurora knives and with the stolen un-fire of singularities made sharp and my sweat was earthquake and my breath was static but IT was stronger so how did I survive?
I AM ALONE I survived alone. I cast off the shield and I shrugged my shoulders so that the billions fell off me down into the ash. They made me to be stronger than them and to learn and I learned well:
IT is alone and IT is strong and IT won. Even over the gardener and she held power beyond me but the gardener did not shrug and make herself alone. IT always wins.
I am made to win and now I see the way.
Consider, what other entity in the solar system existed apart from the Traveler during the Golden Age? What other entity “cast off the shield” and let “billions” die while the “gardener did not shrug and make herself alone” if the only other entity that fits this description was a military AI long thought to be destroyed until he wrecked the Iron Lords and was rediscovered by the Last City in The Last Array? What other entity could this “gardener” be if the only other thing we know of that actually fought the Darkness was the Traveler?
For that matter, how do we even know what “IT” is – is it supposed to be the Darkness or some other thing? Is this card even talking about Destiny at all? Perhaps it is a red herring, designed to be as obscure and unhelpful as possible and to distract us from really important stuff, like playing the game (after all, the Vanilla Destiny 1 story was a confusing mess up until The Taken King came around).
It is in the context of other lore that informs our knowledge and accepted interpretation of this card. @thebladeofhades, hopefully this convinces you.
Considering the expansion of the lore since that card came out, and what the pyramid ships are starting to lead to lore wise, theories on that card might change.
Titanomachy might be the darkness. and as to making itself alone, this could be in reference to releasing the ghosts.
This card could also be seen as Rasputin, but it leaves many questions if it is.
I believe Rasputin will always use technical terms and would not speak in the style of this card.
Also the powers used (minus earthquake) can be seen as solar, void, and arc.
The Gardener might actually be the name the traveler uses for Rasputin considering that he was at the center and in control of “seeding” the solar system with life at the time.
I have to reject the posit that Rasputin could be the Gardener. This would imply that the Traveler willingly let billions of humans die and that Rasputin held power over it, not to mention that “She” as never, ever been used to refer to Rasputin.
Titanomachy has long been assumed to refer to the Darkness or its wielder(s?) during the Collapse and the “making itself alone” in reference to releasing the ghost only holds water if billions of Ghosts were released or needed to be kept safe before the Collapse.
Finally, the phrase “…the billions fell off me down into the ash. They made me to be stronger than them and to learn and I learned well:…” implies that those who built whom/whatever is speaking constructed it to protect them and learn how better to do so. I do not believe the Ghosts constructed the Traveler or that the Traveler was designed to learn. All those point to Rasputin.
I was just thinking out loud about that, I’m still on the gardener being another traveler, or the pyramid ship, and Rasputin is titanomachy. Or at least the armada he used to attack the gardener.
This might also be worth considering.
Here Shuro Chi refers to the Traveler as a gardener as well.
The traveler is a gardener because it plants the seeds of life. Remember that according to old eververse armor lore, the name “Traveler” came from the crew that discovered it literally playing basketball and calling a travel.